I'm considering replacing the middler seat in my classic 10 with a
sliding seat.  If I remember correctly there were plans that came with
the original plans.  Does anyone have a copy of them I could scrounge
(preferably as a PDF)?

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "pjacobs55" <prjacobs@...> wrote:
>
> Peer,
> According to Robert Morris, author of "Building Skin-On-Frame Boats",
> ballistic nylon is a better choice than Dacron (polyester). He uses 8oz
> material, although 12 oz is also avaiable. I'm going to use it on my
> future Blackfly pram.
> Here is one supplier: http://tinyurl.com/crhaoa
>
> Peter.
>
> --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "peerstrik" <peerstrik@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Casper I will check it out. Right now I'm studying
> > alternatives too. Canvas or pvc or hypalon covered fabric for exta
> > strenght.
> > Untill next time.
> > Peer
> >
>
Like Dacron ballistic nylon is no longer fabricated in the Netherlands
so we have some trouble obtaining stuff like that. Dyneema would be no
problem...

Is there a moderator here?
  I suggest that you moderate new members to prevent this.
  This spammer has been posting for a week or so and hasn't been
stopped yet.
Bill Keiser


> Hi I was just wondering when you wanted to chat. I'm a large
breasted 50 something redhead. I'm also quite large breasted lol
>  . . .

Taken care of
--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Keiser" <bk2@...> wrote:
>
>  Is there a moderator here?
>  I suggest that you moderate new members to prevent this.
>  This spammer has been posting for a week or so and hasn't been
> stopped yet.
> Bill Keiser
>
>
> > Hi I was just wondering when you wanted to chat. I'm a large
> breasted 50 something redhead. I'm also quite large breasted lol
> >  . . .
>

Hi all,

Just went to the Hobart Wooden Boat festival downunder in Tasmania.
Was very inspired by a 14" Airolite built using our ancient huon pine
and now want to build one myself.

Does anyone know if there is much difference between the Arrow 14 or
the Snowshoe14.

I have in mind trips with two adults or one adult and a couple of
sub-teen kids. Our waters can be a bit exposed so would need to be
reasonbly seaworthy.

Regards

Tim

Tim,

If you are going to put more than one person in the boat,
go with the Snowshoe 14. The Arrow 14 is a one person boat.

Tom

The Arrow is a light rather narrow canoe suitable for one.  The
Snowshoe is wider, with more weight capacity.  If you are taking two
adults out in open water, I would go with a 16 or 17 foot boat.  The
longer hull would be more efficient for speed, and would have much
greater capacity which would translate to higher freeboard with just
passengers.

My .02,

Michael Grogg
Clearwater Florida


--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "tim.ryan95" <tim.ryan95@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just went to the Hobart Wooden Boat festival downunder in Tasmania.
> Was very inspired by a 14" Airolite built using our ancient huon pine
> and now want to build one myself.
>
> Does anyone know if there is much difference between the Arrow 14 or
> the Snowshoe14.
>
> I have in mind trips with two adults or one adult and a couple of
> sub-teen kids. Our waters can be a bit exposed so would need to be
> reasonbly seaworthy.
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>

Hi All

Comparing specs on the Airolite site it looks like the Snowshoe 14 is 2" wider
than the Arrow 14 and its capacity is higher.  The Snowshoe 14 also has more
rocker in the keel, which means to me, novice that I am, that it will have less
directional stability.  Though you could say it will be more maneuverable when
loaded.  Does all that make it more seaworthy?

First post to this group.  I have started a Rob Roy kayak.  My daughter wanted a
"real kayak" like we tried out when we visited Florida.  We have some Hobie
kayaks, but she and I both want to try something else.  The low weight and
materials cost of the Airolite concept is appealing.  If I can do a nice job on
the Rob Roy I may consider a Blivit.  I've had sailing in the back of my mind
since reading "Swallows and Amazons" way back when, but we've never been
boaters.

Cedric

Tim,

The Snowshoe 14 is designed as a general-purpose 14' canoe.  The Arrow
14 is actually a stretched Snowshoe 12, and, as the others have
stated, will have characteristics that reflect the differing
length/beam ratios (SS12 = 5:1; SS14 = 5.25:1; A14 = 6:1) and (I
believe) a bit less rocker in the Arrow.  According to Platt's specs,
the greater volume of the SS14 affords 100 lbs. greater capacity (400
lbs. vs. 300).  The Arrow 14 was actually a builder innovation that
Platt Monfort liked so much that he created a plan set for it.

-Roland
--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "tim.ryan95" <tim.ryan95@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just went to the Hobart Wooden Boat festival downunder in Tasmania.
> Was very inspired by a 14" Airolite built using our ancient huon pine
> and now want to build one myself.
>
> Does anyone know if there is much difference between the Arrow 14 or
> the Snowshoe14.
>
> I have in mind trips with two adults or one adult and a couple of
> sub-teen kids. Our waters can be a bit exposed so would need to be
> reasonbly seaworthy.
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Melcher Cedric
<ichacedbodric@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All
>
> Comparing specs on the Airolite site it looks like the Snowshoe 14
is 2" wider than the Arrow 14 and its capacity is higher.  The
Snowshoe 14 also has more rocker in the keel, which means to me,
novice that I am, that it will have less directional stability.
Though you could say it will be more maneuverable when loaded.  Does
all that make it more seaworthy?
>

The more rocker, the faster you can turn the boat.  Handy for river
running, less desirable for open water like large lakes or even ocean.
  The greater width gives you better lateral stability as well as a
larger hull volume which can translate to either greater weight
carrying capacity, and greater freeboard.  I have done a couple of
crossings out in open water with two people and a full load of camping
gear gear and a weeks worth of food, with a lot of wave action and
wind to contend with.  There is more peace of mind when you aren't
worried about swamping with every wave.  The longer the boat,  the
greater the aspect ratio of length to width, the less energy you will
have to expend paddling, and assuming you could paddle that fast, the
higher the theoretical hull speed.

As far as rocker goes, since you are building the boat, you can add or
remove rocker when you layout your forms on the strong back. How much
you put in would depend on whether you plan to spend most of your time
on the lake, or if you will be dodging rocks in a river.

MG





>

Hello All
I would like to build a Snowshoe Explorer 14 and would like to add a
sliding seat rowing rig as suggested in the design description. Does
anyone know of a suitable sliding rig? I notce also that the feature
comparison chart on the GA site says 'NO' for sliding seat rowing for
this model
regards John

First, a word of caution.  Platt's descriptions frequently evolved as
the actual real-world capabilities (and lack of same) became better
known, and I suspect that at times the web site didn't stay "in
synch".  Are you sure that this model will behave acceptably with ~150
lbs. sliding back and forth over 30" or so of travel?  Anyway, the
most wallet-friendly way to do this that I've been able to deduce
would be to make what you can and buy the pieces for what you can't
from Latanzo in Philly:
http://www.latanzorowingparts.com/
Glen-L also sells plans for a sliding seat that I believe are based on
Latanzo's parts:
http://www.glen-l.com/designs/canu-row/slidingseat.html
There is also what is known as a "sliding rigger" system in which the
seat is fixed and "everything else" moves.  The good news is that it
is ideal for shorter boats, the bad is that it is a challenge to adapt
to a canoe.  Gary Piantedosi also makes drop-in kits that use
convention sliding seat technology:
http://www.rowingrigs.com/slidingrig.html

Hope that helps.

-Roland

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "johnhutch777"
<johnhutch777@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All
> I would like to build a Snowshoe Explorer 14 and would like to add a
> sliding seat rowing rig as suggested in the design description. Does
> anyone know of a suitable sliding rig? I notce also that the feature
> comparison chart on the GA site says 'NO' for sliding seat rowing for
> this model
> regards John
>

And (as I have asked earlier to this group) what kind of oars do you
all prefer for a sliding seat? I built mine from wind-surf masts with
canoo paddels. I made them 'stiff' on the pivot point with PVC tube.
Buth always interested in better desings.

Gjalt

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "rueffingkidding"
<rueffingkidding@...> wrote:
>
> First, a word of caution.  Platt's descriptions frequently evolved
as
> the actual real-world capabilities (and lack of same) became better
> known, and I suspect that at times the web site didn't stay "in
> synch".  Are you sure that this model will behave acceptably with
~150
> lbs. sliding back and forth over 30" or so of travel?  Anyway, the
> most wallet-friendly way to do this that I've been able to deduce
> would be to make what you can and buy the pieces for what you can't
> from Latanzo in Philly:
> http://www.latanzorowingparts.com/
> Glen-L also sells plans for a sliding seat that I believe are based
on
> Latanzo's parts:
> http://www.glen-l.com/designs/canu-row/slidingseat.html
> There is also what is known as a "sliding rigger" system in which
the
> seat is fixed and "everything else" moves.  The good news is that it
> is ideal for shorter boats, the bad is that it is a challenge to
adapt
> to a canoe.  Gary Piantedosi also makes drop-in kits that use
> convention sliding seat technology:
> http://www.rowingrigs.com/slidingrig.html
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> -Roland
>
> --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "johnhutch777"
> <johnhutch777@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All
> > I would like to build a Snowshoe Explorer 14 and would like to
add a
> > sliding seat rowing rig as suggested in the design description.
Does
> > anyone know of a suitable sliding rig? I notce also that the
feature
> > comparison chart on the GA site says 'NO' for sliding seat rowing
for
> > this model
> > regards John
> >
>

Hi all,

Thanks first for the replies regarding my question about the merits of
Arrow vs Snowshoe. I have the plans for the Snowshoe 14 on their way
down under.

I didn't purchase the partial kit as (i) the postage was expensive to
Australia - $56US with USPS or $130US with UPS!, (ii) I would have had
to mess around getting them to give  prices minus the expoxy because
of the extra cost of hazardous shipping and (iii) I got the false
impression from reading the posts and looking at the gaboats website,
that heat shrink dacron was reasonbly common and would be easy to
obtain (clearly I'm new to all this).

I visited a local sailmaker thinking he would have rolls of the stuff
ready to sell. He had requests like this 2-3 times a year, but didn't
know where to get it. Suffice to say he assured me that it is
something quite different than the dacron cloth used in sails.

Internet searching came up blank with most roads leading back to gaboats.

I asked our local model aircraft shop who have it but sell it in very
small quantities.

At this point it is looking like I will have to be getting in from the
US and probably from gaboats or maybe www.aircraftspruce.com.

Any ideas on how I might get hold of this in Australia would be welcome.

I'm wondering if the material has other names, perhaps more technical
that might help my searching? Also I noticed that people at our recent
wooden boat festival were using ballistic nylon on their skin on frame
kayaks. I gather this is similar but not the same as heat-shrink
dacron. Either way, I've had no luck in locating suppliers of this
possible alternate material.

Thanks in advance for any help.

cheers


Tim

-------------- Original message from "tim.ryan95" <tim.ryan95@...>: --------------


> Hi all,
>
> Thanks first for the replies regarding my question about the merits of
> Arrow vs Snowshoe. I have the plans for the Snowshoe 14 on their way
> down under.
>
> I didn't purchase the partial kit as (i) the postage was expensive to
> Australia - $56US with USPS or $130US with UPS!, (ii) I would have had
> to mess around getting them to give prices minus the expoxy because
> of the extra cost of hazardous shipping and (iii) I got the false
> impression from reading the posts and looking at the gaboats website,
> that heat shrink dacron was reasonbly common and would be easy to
> obtain (clearly I'm new to all this).
>
> I visited a local sailmaker thinking he would have rolls of the stuff
> ready to sell. He had requests like this 2-3 times a year, but didn't
> know where to get it. Suffice to say he assured me that it is
> something quite different than the dacron cloth used in sails.
>
> Internet searching came up blank with most roads leading back to gaboats.
>
> I asked our local model aircraft shop who have it but sell it in very
> small quantities.
>
> At this point it is looking like I will have to be getting in from the
> US and probably from gaboats or maybe www.aircraftspruce.com.
>
> Any ideas on how I might get hold of this in Australia would be welcome.
>
> I'm wondering if the material has other names, perhaps more technical
> that might help my searching? Also I noticed that people at our recent
> wooden boat festival were using ballistic nylon on their skin on frame
> kayaks. I gather this is similar but not the same as heat-shrink
> dacron. Either way, I've had no luck in locating suppliers of this
> possible alternate material.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> cheers
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airolite_Boats/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
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>
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>

Hi Tim:

Paul again..Evidently Yahoo thinks my answers to your post are spam..
So I'll repost a quick answer here.
The summery is this...

I agree with the poster about the home built or experimental aircraft
folks having the dacron. It may be available by a trade name there.

Also I would consider the ballistic nylon as an alternative if
available. To that end there is an article in issues 205 and 206 of
Woodenboat magazine (latest two issues) about building a skin on frame
boat using nylon. Page 38 in issue 205 and page 44 in issue
206...Issue 206 deals with the covering and finishing of the boat. I'd
do a quick test with the "Heat-n-Bond" on the nylon if you can find
that locally. I bet it will work just fine. Perhaps easier than the
staple and sewing method used in the article..(although I've never
tried sewing and staples) You can go to their website,
www.woodenboat.com and order issues from the "store" link. Also while
there, go to the forum and register (free) and post your question
about availability of Dacron in Australia. There are several folks who
post there from Australia on a regular basis. Put the word Australia
in the headline to get their attention :). Perhaps they can help you
find it locally.
Hope this helps. Keep us posted on the progress.
My apologies for the multiple posts. Got tangled up in Yahoo's quest
to eliminate spam I guess.

Sincerely:
Paul

I live in the Atlanta, Georgia USA area. Am not familiar with the
assortment of woods that might be available from lumber companies
other than Home Depot/Lowes. I wonder if the recommended varieties are
readily available since the Aerolite boats were designed.

Recommendations regarding species selection, available sizes, and
general availability would be appreciated.

How are the strips (stringers and ribs) produced. Are they ripped
using the table saw from the 2x12's that are mentioned on the GA web page?

Any estimates of wood material cost for Snowshoe 14 or similar boats.
The plans and partial kits seemed to be very attractively priced.

What are your opinions of the instructional materials provided with
the plans?

Best Regards,

Mike Mueller

....

Thanks for the replies. Success at last. The tip about seeking out
suppliers of aircraft construction material was the key.
Aircraftspruce have agents in Australia. Fabric is costing between
$6 and $8 per yard for folded fabric depending on thickness (1.7 to
3.4 Oz/sq yard) + shipping costs within Australia (should be quite
modest).

http://www.aircraftspruce.com.au/

Also found it is referred to as poly-fibre dacron. Following that
lead I found a site
http://www.polyfiber.com/index.htm which has an Australian rep at
http://www.aviaquip.com.au/index_files/Page432.htm. Rang this
company and they said they can supply as well.

So have a couple of good options now.

cheers


Tim






--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, noneof yourbusiness
<second_floor_loft@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim:
> One more thing.. ( I'm having a senior moment this morning...)
While at the Woodenboat website, go to the forum and post your
question there about the Dacron...There are quite a few people who
post there from Australia and may be able to help you find the
Dacron locally.
>
> Sincerely:
> Paul
>
> --- On Sat, 2/14/09, tim.ryan95 <tim.ryan95@...> wrote:
> From: tim.ryan95 <tim.ryan95@...>
> Subject: [Airolite_Boats] How can I obtain heat shrink dacron (in
Australia?)
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 5:45 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             Hi all,
>
>
>
> Thanks first for the replies regarding my question about the
merits of
>
> Arrow vs Snowshoe. I have the plans for the Snowshoe 14 on their
way
>
> down under.
>
>
>
> I didn't purchase the partial kit as (i) the postage was expensive
to
>
> Australia - $56US with USPS or $130US with UPS!, (ii) I would have
had
>
> to mess around getting them to give  prices minus the expoxy
because
>
> of the extra cost of hazardous shipping and (iii) I got the false
>
> impression from reading the posts and looking at the gaboats
website,
>
> that heat shrink dacron was reasonbly common and would be easy to
>
> obtain (clearly I'm new to all this).
>
>
>
> I visited a local sailmaker thinking he would have rolls of the
stuff
>
> ready to sell. He had requests like this 2-3 times a year, but
didn't
>
> know where to get it. Suffice to say he assured me that it is
>
> something quite different than the dacron cloth used in sails.
>
>
>
> Internet searching came up blank with most roads leading back to
gaboats.
>
>
>
> I asked our local model aircraft shop who have it but sell it in
very
>
> small quantities.
>
>
>
> At this point it is looking like I will have to be getting in from
the
>
> US and probably from gaboats or maybe www.aircraftspruce. com.
>
>
>
> Any ideas on how I might get hold of this in Australia would be
welcome.
>
>
>
> I'm wondering if the material has other names, perhaps more
technical
>
> that might help my searching? Also I noticed that people at our
recent
>
> wooden boat festival were using ballistic nylon on their skin on
frame
>
> kayaks. I gather this is similar but not the same as heat-shrink
>
> dacron. Either way, I've had no luck in locating suppliers of this
>
> possible alternate material.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>
>
> cheers
>
>
>
> Tim
>

Take a look in your phone books from surrounding rural areas for
Sawmills & Hardwood dealers.  You should be able to find both Cedar
and Ash if you do some looking, also Cypress may available as far
North as Atlanta.  Be sure to get wood that has not been Kiln Dried,
either air dried, or if possible freshly cut.  Kiln dried wood does
not take kindly to steam bending.

Ash is probably the easiest to bend and is strong, Cedar is light, but
the eastern variety has a lot of knots from my experience.  Cypress is
almost as as light, but rather localized to areas where it grows.  We
have it available here in Florida, don't know about your area.  Also,
if your want a strong wood for the frame, there is always White Oak.
Strong, steam bends easily, but it is heavy.

You can cut down your strips from larger stock.  Pay attention to the
direction of the grain, and cut accordingly.  A table saw is just
about a given, a thickness planer is nice, but you can live without it.

Also, in the Atlanta area is Aircraft Spruce who carry Heat Shrinkable
Dacron, Kevlar Roving and a good assortment of adhesives.  My cost for
the covering and roving for my Arrow14 was about half of the cost from
  GA.  You could pickup and save shipping as well.  They carry wood,
but it is very pricey.

Michael




--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "georgiasailor52"
<michaelkentmueller@...> wrote:
>
> I live in the Atlanta, Georgia USA area. Am not familiar with the
> assortment of woods that might be available from lumber companies
> other than Home Depot/Lowes. I wonder if the recommended varieties are
> readily available since the Aerolite boats were designed.
>
> Recommendations regarding species selection, available sizes, and
> general availability would be appreciated.
>
> How are the strips (stringers and ribs) produced. Are they ripped
> using the table saw from the 2x12's that are mentioned on the GA web
page?
>
> Any estimates of wood material cost for Snowshoe 14 or similar boats.
> The plans and partial kits seemed to be very attractively priced.
>
> What are your opinions of the instructional materials provided with
> the plans?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mike Mueller
>
> ....
>

My number one concern for wood species used would be natural rot
resistance
due to exposure to water etc.  Teak I know is used a lot in sailboat
decks ? ? ?   This assumes that glue could adhere to it strongly.

I may have heard that some oily woods dont glue real well.
Contact the wood workers equipment supply stores and ask about local
custom wood sellers.  There are lots of cabinet/furniture builders
and carvers to keep those guys busy.  Not too long ago I bought
some maple to make a chopping block for a new kitchen counter
I was building.
Scott

mgrogg51 wrote:
>
> Take a look in your phone books from surrounding rural areas for
> Sawmills & Hardwood dealers.  You should be able to find both Cedar
> and Ash if you do some looking, also Cypress may available as far
> North as Atlanta.  Be sure to get wood that has not been Kiln Dried,
> either air dried, or if possible freshly cut.  Kiln dried wood does
> not take kindly to steam bending.
>
> Ash is probably the easiest to bend and is strong, Cedar is light, but
> the eastern variety has a lot of knots from my experience.  Cypress is
> almost as as light, but rather localized to areas where it grows.  We
> have it available here in Florida, don't know about your area.  Also,
> if your want a strong wood for the frame, there is always White Oak.
> Strong, steam bends easily, but it is heavy.
>
> You can cut down your strips from larger stock.  Pay attention to the
> direction of the grain, and cut accordingly.  A table saw is just
> about a given, a thickness planer is nice, but you can live without it.
>
> Also, in the Atlanta area is Aircraft Spruce who carry Heat Shrinkable
> Dacron, Kevlar Roving and a good assortment of adhesives.  My cost for
> the covering and roving for my Arrow14 was about half of the cost from
>  GA.  You could pickup and save shipping as well.  They carry wood,
> but it is very pricey.
>
> Michael
>
> --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "georgiasailor52"
> <michaelkentmueller@...> wrote:
> >
> > I live in the Atlanta, Georgia USA area. Am not familiar with the
> > assortment of woods that might be available from lumber companies
> > other than Home Depot/Lowes. I wonder if the recommended varieties are
> > readily available since the Aerolite boats were designed.
> >
> > Recommendations regarding species selection, available sizes, and
> > general availability would be appreciated.
> >
> > How are the strips (stringers and ribs) produced. Are they ripped
> > using the table saw from the 2x12's that are mentioned on the GA web
> page?
> >
> > Any estimates of wood material cost for Snowshoe 14 or similar boats.
> > The plans and partial kits seemed to be very attractively priced.
> >
> > What are your opinions of the instructional materials provided with
> > the plans?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Mike Mueller
> >
> > ....
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/08 8:30
PM

Hi Everyone,

I joined this group to listen in and to get some information before
I build one of these, anyways, I was wondering if instead of wood,
could you use a synthetic material like:  1/2 inch  CPVC pipe, thin
wall aluminum tubing, or solid rod fiberglass or plastics.  In
particular, CPVC is  universally available, is fairly cheap, light
and rot-proof. It  bends easily and it is buoyant.  I was thinking
to use a minimum of fittings, just tie crossings together with nylon
string and epoxy coat.  Could be a  hybrid of wood and plastic, not
a purist by any means.  I envision a  primitive type construction,
sort of a skin on frame kayak method used by natives, only using
native suburban type materials.

Really want to build currach using this technique, but thinking to
build an Arrow to familiarize myself with the technique.

I welcome any feed back.  Great group by the way!

Ps.  Can anyone tell me where could I get the two videos mentioned
on construction technique?  Also any other sources of books and
materials that would help would be appreciated.

I'd love to see CPVC used with synthetic lashing. Just like the
natives using sticks and vines.  You could still glue covering
to the tubes.  I wonder if there are some parts that would not
bend sufficiently?  In that case I get warming the tubing up
over a pot of boiling water in the steam would probably help.
Great idea !  The tubing I think would be quite a bit heavier
than wood however.  So what !  Alum tube is expensive and fiberglass
rod also I think.  I always thought the graphite shafts made
for golf clubs could be used in areas were straight pieces
were needed as those are fairly affordable now that they
are made in the thousands.
Scott

mmartin2001 wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I joined this group to listen in and to get some information before
> I build one of these, anyways, I was wondering if instead of wood,
> could you use a synthetic material like:  1/2 inch  CPVC pipe, thin
> wall aluminum tubing, or solid rod fiberglass or plastics.  In
> particular, CPVC is  universally available, is fairly cheap, light
> and rot-proof. It  bends easily and it is buoyant.  I was thinking
> to use a minimum of fittings, just tie crossings together with nylon
> string and epoxy coat.  Could be a  hybrid of wood and plastic, not
> a purist by any means.  I envision a  primitive type construction,
> sort of a skin on frame kayak method used by natives, only using
> native suburban type materials.
>
> Really want to build currach using this technique, but thinking to
> build an Arrow to familiarize myself with the technique.
>
> I welcome any feed back.  Great group by the way!
>
> Ps.  Can anyone tell me where could I get the two videos mentioned
> on construction technique?  Also any other sources of books and
> materials that would help would be appreciated.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/08 8:30
PM

--I would assume it would bend quite nicely, just as PVC Conduit
does.  The PVC conduit can be bent with heat gun or in a special
tube shaped oven.  The oven could be improvised easily as well with
some heat strips or a pipe over a fish burner.  Shape it to a
plywood molding jig and you should have a chance.  However, CPVC is
used for hot water service so I am not sure how much heat would be
required before it softens and begins to yield.  I may do some
experimenting to see just how it behaves.  As far as weight goes, I
don't know, 1/2 inch cpvc is pretty light stuff and quite tough.
I've only seen it in short lengths(6 feet or so) in Lowes/Home
Depot, but may be available in 10 and 20 foot lenghts from plumbing
supply houses.  Anyways, if you have an accident on an outing, just
bring some glue and a few fittings, some string and duct tape!

- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Scott Perkins <2scott@...>
wrote:
>
> I'd love to see CPVC used with synthetic lashing. Just like the
> natives using sticks and vines.  You could still glue covering
> to the tubes.  I wonder if there are some parts that would not
> bend sufficiently?  In that case I get warming the tubing up
> over a pot of boiling water in the steam would probably help.
> Great idea !  The tubing I think would be quite a bit heavier
> than wood however.  So what !  Alum tube is expensive and
fiberglass
> rod also I think.  I always thought the graphite shafts made
> for golf clubs could be used in areas were straight pieces
> were needed as those are fairly affordable now that they
> are made in the thousands.
> Scott
>
> mmartin2001 wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I joined this group to listen in and to get some information
before
> > I build one of these, anyways, I was wondering if instead of
wood,
> > could you use a synthetic material like:  1/2 inch  CPVC pipe,
thin
> > wall aluminum tubing, or solid rod fiberglass or plastics.  In
> > particular, CPVC is  universally available, is fairly cheap,
light
> > and rot-proof. It  bends easily and it is buoyant.  I was
thinking
> > to use a minimum of fittings, just tie crossings together with
nylon
> > string and epoxy coat.  Could be a  hybrid of wood and plastic,
not
> > a purist by any means.  I envision a  primitive type
construction,
> > sort of a skin on frame kayak method used by natives, only using
> > native suburban type materials.
> >
> > Really want to build currach using this technique, but thinking
to
> > build an Arrow to familiarize myself with the technique.
> >
> > I welcome any feed back.  Great group by the way!
> >
> > Ps.  Can anyone tell me where could I get the two videos
mentioned
> > on construction technique?  Also any other sources of books and
> > materials that would help would be appreciated.
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release
Date: 1/31/08 8:30 PM
>

I used PVC to substitute for galvanized top rail (chain link system) in some
horizontal members of a canopy tarp last summer.  Based the very poor fatigue
resistance (failure due to flexing) that I have observed, I'd be very skeptical
of it in the rib application.  Whatever is used also must have longitudinal
coherence of some kind (fibers, etc.), PVC and CPVC tubing appear to have none. 
The graphite shaft idea seems a bit more promising, but such shafts are usually
tapered, which might make balancing tensions an interesting exercise.  There is
also the question of how one would mate rectangular cross-section stringers and
circular cross-section ribs.  If one makes the stringers from  circular
cross-section members as well the question shifts to one of adhering the fabric.
The ideas have merit, but I think that pursuing them would quickly evolve into
something other than GA boatbuilding.  Not that there is anything wrong with
that...

-Roland


--- On Mon, 2/16/09, mmartin2001 <mmartin2001@...> wrote:

> From: mmartin2001 <mmartin2001@...>
> Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Synthetic rib question.
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 5:26 PM
> --I would assume it would bend quite nicely, just as PVC
> Conduit
> does.  The PVC conduit can be bent with heat gun or in a
> special
> tube shaped oven.  The oven could be improvised easily as
> well with
> some heat strips or a pipe over a fish burner.  Shape it to
> a
> plywood molding jig and you should have a chance.  However,
> CPVC is
> used for hot water service so I am not sure how much heat
> would be
> required before it softens and begins to yield.  I may do
> some
> experimenting to see just how it behaves.  As far as weight
> goes, I
> don't know, 1/2 inch cpvc is pretty light stuff and
> quite tough.
> I've only seen it in short lengths(6 feet or so) in
> Lowes/Home
> Depot, but may be available in 10 and 20 foot lenghts from
> plumbing
> supply houses.  Anyways, if you have an accident on an
> outing, just
> bring some glue and a few fittings, some string and duct
> tape!
>
> - In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Scott Perkins
> <2scott@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'd love to see CPVC used with synthetic lashing.
> Just like the
> > natives using sticks and vines.  You could still glue
> covering
> > to the tubes.  I wonder if there are some parts that
> would not
> > bend sufficiently?  In that case I get warming the
> tubing up
> > over a pot of boiling water in the steam would
> probably help.
> > Great idea !  The tubing I think would be quite a bit
> heavier
> > than wood however.  So what !  Alum tube is expensive
> and
> fiberglass
> > rod also I think.  I always thought the graphite
> shafts made
> > for golf clubs could be used in areas were straight
> pieces
> > were needed as those are fairly affordable now that
> they
> > are made in the thousands.
> > Scott
> >
> > mmartin2001 wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > I joined this group to listen in and to get some
> information
> before
> > > I build one of these, anyways, I was wondering if
> instead of
> wood,
> > > could you use a synthetic material like:  1/2
> inch  CPVC pipe,
> thin
> > > wall aluminum tubing, or solid rod fiberglass or
> plastics.  In
> > > particular, CPVC is  universally available, is
> fairly cheap,
> light
> > > and rot-proof. It  bends easily and it is
> buoyant.  I was
> thinking
> > > to use a minimum of fittings, just tie crossings
> together with
> nylon
> > > string and epoxy coat.  Could be a  hybrid of
> wood and plastic,
> not
> > > a purist by any means.  I envision a  primitive
> type
> construction,
> > > sort of a skin on frame kayak method used by
> natives, only using
> > > native suburban type materials.
> > >
> > > Really want to build currach using this
> technique, but thinking
> to
> > > build an Arrow to familiarize myself with the
> technique.
> > >
> > > I welcome any feed back.  Great group by the way!
> > >
> > > Ps.  Can anyone tell me where could I get the two
> videos
> mentioned
> > > on construction technique?  Also any other
> sources of books and
> > > materials that would help would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254
> - Release
> Date: 1/31/08 8:30 PM
> >