Elliott,

Not on a GA boat, but I use a MinnKota 27 lb thrust motor on my 16'
Mohawk fiberglass canoe.  The canoe comes in around 70 pounds.  With
2 adults aboard it makes about 2 knots.  I use a single marine deep
cycle battery which gives me about 6 hours at full thrust, maybe 10
hours at 80% power.

I expect a light GA hull and one person on board would move out
smartly with a 30-40 pound thrust MinnKota motor.

V/r,

Casey Sterbenz

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Elliot Mednick" <elliot@...>
wrote:
>
> Nice setup.
>
>
>
> The 801 is the equivalent of 2hp.  You say that  gets you about
5mph.  Is
> that with just you in the boat?  I'm just trying to decide what
motor to get
> for my Classic 14.  The 801 is expensive, thought.  $1700 street.
And you
> say that an extra battery is expensive?  Isn't a marine deep cycle
battery
> around $150?  And the 801 isn't even for salt water, which is what
I would
> need.
>
>
>
> I'm thinking about a Minn Kota $200-$300 30-40lb thrust motor with
two deep
> cycle batteries and a zinc anode.
>
>
>
> Does anyone else have experience with electric trolling motors on a
GA boat?
>
>
>
> --Elliot
>
>
<snip>

Hello Casey and Elliot, Sid here. My Son and I just got back from
Elephant Butte. We were using a 28 lbs thrust MiniKota on our 180lb
1968 StarCraft. The boat carries only 380 lbs total. Between his 190
lbs and my 180 lbs and about 60 lbs of gear (which includes battery
and the MiniKota motor) we were moving rather nicely at about 6 knots)
It was a great day on the lake, even though the teen-aged jet skiers
and drunk speed boaters were making us a bit nervous... no one failed
to see us. We didn't have our fishing licences lined up yet and still
don't, so was just sat out there eating watermelon. It was a blast.
The Son/Sean rowed quite awhile, cause he wanted the work out. But the
motor could have done us well for much longer than we actually used it.
So, I would say the cheaper 27 to 28 lb thrust motor will do just fine
for your much lighter Classic 10. You should be really zippy with that
motor, unless you are loaded down to the max spec.

Have funs,

Sid


--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Casey Sterbenz" <sterbejj@...>
wrote:
>
> Elliott,
>
> Not on a GA boat, but I use a MinnKota 27 lb thrust motor on my 16'
> Mohawk fiberglass canoe.  The canoe comes in around 70 pounds.  With
> 2 adults aboard it makes about 2 knots.  I use a single marine deep
> cycle battery which gives me about 6 hours at full thrust, maybe 10
> hours at 80% power.
>
> I expect a light GA hull and one person on board would move out
> smartly with a 30-40 pound thrust MinnKota motor.
>
> V/r,
>
> Casey Sterbenz
>
> --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Elliot Mednick" <elliot@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Nice setup.
> >
> >
> >
> > The 801 is the equivalent of 2hp.  You say that  gets you about
> 5mph.  Is
> > that with just you in the boat?  I'm just trying to decide what
> motor to get
> > for my Classic 14.  The 801 is expensive, thought.  $1700 street.
> And you
> > say that an extra battery is expensive?  Isn't a marine deep cycle
> battery
> > around $150?  And the 801 isn't even for salt water, which is what
> I would
> > need.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm thinking about a Minn Kota $200-$300 30-40lb thrust motor with
> two deep
> > cycle batteries and a zinc anode.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone else have experience with electric trolling motors on a
> GA boat?
> >
> >
> >
> > --Elliot
> >
> >
> <snip>
>

I am entering in a 340 mile river race on the Missouri in August 2009.
I am very interested in building one of these boats, but I wanted to
get some input of those of you that have used and "abused" these boats
on a regular basis.  I am 5'7" and about 120-125 lbs, so I need
something I can handle better than my Dad's old town canoe.  Me and my
gear come to about 190-200lbs at most. I am thinking about the snowshoe
12 or arrow 14.  The river is a Class 1, no rapids, about a 3-3.5 mph
current, with wing dikes, bouys, sand bars, and an occasional bardge.
This is an endurance race and I am using 7 ft kayak paddles. What do
you experts think?  Thank you for your time and consideration.

JM

It can not be powered by wind or motors.  It must be powered by
paddling.  I am using a kayak paddle.
--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, bschless@... wrote:
>
> I would point you to the extensive emails of late concerning
electric
> motors.  Alternatively, have you considered building a sailing rig?
>
>  Beau Schless
> President/CEO
> NOTEbookS Library Automation Systems
> Celebrating 15 years exceeding customers' expectations
> HTTP://WWW.RASCO.COM
> PH: 1.(978) 443-2996
>
>
>
> "marie63552" <marie63552@...>
> Sent by: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> 07/24/2008 11:54 AM
> Please respond to
> Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To
> Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> [Airolite_Boats] Endurance Race
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am entering in a 340 mile river race on the Missouri in August
2009.
> I am very interested in building one of these boats, but I wanted
to
> get some input of those of you that have used and "abused" these
boats
> on a regular basis. I am 5'7" and about 120-125 lbs, so I need
> something I can handle better than my Dad's old town canoe. Me and
my
> gear come to about 190-200lbs at most. I am thinking about the
snowshoe
> 12 or arrow 14. The river is a Class 1, no rapids, about a 3-3.5
mph
> current, with wing dikes, bouys, sand bars, and an occasional
bardge.
> This is an endurance race and I am using 7 ft kayak paddles. What
do
> you experts think? Thank you for your time and consideration.
>
> JM
>

I should be able to finish a Classic 10 in a few more days. In order
to car top it I may have to buy longer bars for my Thule roof rack on
the Subaru.

I have been wondering how well these Dacron skin on frame boats do on
the roof at 60MPH. I have a 17' Kevlar canoe that I tie down front and
back and across at the the bars and that does just fine, but I tie it
snug.

I doubled the number of ribs because I felt that the cedar I used was
not strong enough. There is no appreciable increase in weight, but it
did add a lot of work installing the ribs and later painting them. I
added more floor boards as well. I installed a wide floorboard in the
middle and ripped the rest to about 1" wide so that they can be fitted
without deforming the ribs. I did not shim because I hate screwing
around with things and instead glued them to the ribs directly.
Becasue of the added ribs I am not going to use the Kevlar roving.
That would put me over the top. My hands are rough and I could not
deal with the Kevlar.

If anyone can tell me about car topping this boat I would appreciate
it. Thanks.

I would think it would be fine.  The Dacron is used as a covering for small
aircraft wings that typically go much faster than 60mph.

MG
=======================
I should be able to finish a Classic 10 in a few more days. In order
to car top it I may have to buy longer bars for my Thule roof rack on
the Subaru.

I have been wondering how well these Dacron skin on frame boats do on
the roof at 60MPH. I have a 17' Kevlar canoe that I tie down front and
back and across at the the bars and that does just fine, but I tie it
snug.

I doubled the number of ribs because I felt that the cedar I used was
not strong enough. There is no appreciable increase in weight, but it
did add a lot of work installing the ribs and later painting them. I
added more floor boards as well. I installed a wide floorboard in the
middle and ripped the rest to about 1" wide so that they can be fitted
without deforming the ribs. I did not shim because I hate screwing
around with things and instead glued them to the ribs directly.
Becasue of the added ribs I am not going to use the Kevlar roving.
That would put me over the top. My hands are rough and I could not
deal with the Kevlar.

If anyone can tell me about car topping this boat I would appreciate
it. Thanks.


____________________________________________________________
Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a hotel online.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiflKF8rlmW8aJH4yBeqo58TBudHQtH\
eLtY5RliTsQPoA19LJ/

I am working on a Westport Dingy and need some help  on covering it.

The instructions say to be sure to have a 4 inch overhang below the
gunnel but the cloth supplied is not wide enough even if it is laid
square rather than diagonaly.

How important is the amount of overhang? How can I join a second piece
of Dacron to the first piece if necessary?

If I lay the Dacron square it extends an inch below the gunnel.  This
raises the question "How important is it to have the Dacron laid
diagonally?" .

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Browne

Elliot,

Are your tie down straps made of some flat webbing material?  If so,
the vibrations can be eliminated by putting a few twists in each
strap when you are snugging things down, rather than trying to keep
the straps flat and straight.  The twist lets the straps slip the
wind evenly rather than letting them act like a wing.

Flat is OK where the straps bear on the hull, but between the hull
and the edge of the car roof, where the straps are in the slip stream
and acting like a wing, put in a few twists.  That will keep the
straps from vibrating and you can then do without the extra bungee
cord.

I've used this trick for years, both when transporting cartop boats
and when cartopping boatbuilding materials.  It works every time.  I
often drive at Interstate speeds with boats or materials on the roof
of my Buick Century (probably not too smart) and there is no
vibration from my tie down straps at those speeds, when I put the
twist in the tie down straps.  If I forget the twist the straps let
me know about it at 30 mph.

V/r,

Casey Sterbenz

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Elliot Mednick" <elliot@...>
wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> I do find that the straps themselves vibrate, so I use a bungie to
tug them
> toward each other at the sides, on both sides, which adds enough
tension to eliminate the vibration.
>
> --Elliot

What do you think the Classic 14 will weigh in at, with mast, sheets,
sails and centerboard etc., basically everything you will need to sail
and row, over and above the designer's advertised weight. (?)

I have put heat n bond on everywhere and draped the Dacron over the
frame. The video and the written instructions on how to place the
Dacron on a bias are unclear. Hence, I have fitted the Dacron the only
way it is possible and that is that. The instructions call for a line
of heat n bond down the keelson but there is never a mention on when
to fasten the Dacron to the heat n bond along the keelson.  Logic
suggests that the Dacron be heated along the keelson after the Dacron
is secured everywhere else. I would appreciate any help in this. Thanks.

I am also a first time builder of this type of boat.  I also was
unable to get the Dacron to fit on the bias.  I had no problems with
the Dacron being on the square.

I did secure the Dacron to the keelson.  This allowed me to tension
the fabric as I secured it to the gunnel.

The instructions also said to have an additional 8 inches below the
gunnel which I could not acheive.  No problem as long as I had
enough to hold on to so I could pull down as I secured the edge.

I was plesently surprised at how well the process went and with the
results.


Browne Altman


--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ekmanemil" <ekmanemil@...>
wrote:
>
> I have put heat n bond on everywhere and draped the Dacron over the
> frame. The video and the written instructions on how to place the
> Dacron on a bias are unclear. Hence, I have fitted the Dacron the
only
> way it is possible and that is that. The instructions call for a
line
> of heat n bond down the keelson but there is never a mention on
when
> to fasten the Dacron to the heat n bond along the keelson.  Logic
> suggests that the Dacron be heated along the keelson after the
Dacron
> is secured everywhere else. I would appreciate any help in this.
Thanks.
>

Hello all-

I recently heard about the GA boats and have been doing as much web
research as I can on these intriguing, beautiful boats.  I've been
through the archives on this board and got some useful information,
but still have some concerns.  Here's my situation:

1) I live in an apartment and would be doing the build in my living
room (which has maximum 18' for building room, 17' storage room).  I'd
also store the boat inside the living room, suspended from the
ceiling.  Ingress/egress must be through the 44" x 28" window (I'm on
the first floor).
2) I'm in Portland, OR, so my most accessible waters are the small to
medium-sized shallow lakes and slow back channels in the
Willamette/Columbia basin, as well as the rivers themselves.  I would
  also like to paddle some of the more protected coastal bays and
estuaries.  The local whitewater is not on the menu for this boat, as
I have an inflatable kayak for that.
3) I have a paddling partner, and the two of us together weigh about
300 lbs.  The plan is day tripping only with some binoculars/camera
and lunch supplies.
4) I've been paddling canoes and kayaks since I was little.  I'd class
myself as a competent intermediate.
5) I prefer an upright, single-paddle style over the more reclined,
lower kayak style.
6) I've never built a boat, but I'm handy and have some woodworking
experience, as well as a very competent carpenter friend to help with
cutting and shaping the wood.

So the upshot is that I'm looking for the smallest, lightest flatwater
  open boat which will hold two people and supplies for a day trip.
I'd like to have the option to do multi-day solos, too.

I'm looking mainly at the Snowshoe 14, set up with no rocker for good
tracking and traditional canoe seats at or below thwart height.
However, I suspect it would be overly tippy if used this way.  While I
don't mind initial instability, I'm concerned about getting topheavy
and losing secondary stability.  The second choice is a Snowshoe 16,
but now we're talking about a boat which will max out my available
space and weighs just enough more to begin defeating the purpose of an
ultralight.

So my questions (finally):

Does anyone have experience paddling a Snowshoe 14 using a
single-blade paddle and higher-mounted seats?  Or does it have be
paddled from the floor with a double blade?

Does the Snowshoe 14 have enough freeboard at maximum load to handle
powerboat wakes and wind chop, regardless of seat height and paddling
style?

Since the Arrow is similar, perhaps an Arrow owner could comment?  If
what I want to do is not possible, please advise.

Thanks very much,
John

I finished constructed a Classic 10 and overall it was a good
experience and I have  the product I wanted; a lightweight car top
rowboat for fishing the lakes and maybe some salmon fishing and
crabbing in the protected bays in the sound.

I found this discussion group very helpful when I got to the point
where the Dacron had to go on. Up till than the woodworking part of
the job was not difficult. Still, there were many points that should
have been in the instructions, like tracing out the patterns and
transferring that information to the forms.

Technical writing is a hard task. It can be hard to know how much
information to put in and in what form. Pictures can be very useful
and sometimes a good drawing is better than a video. I found myself
sleuthing through any picture of the boats for answers. The Monford
written directions and video, while workable, could use a severe
editing and re-filming. For example, I had a question about when to
stick down the stitch and glue along the keelson and had that answered
by the group. Later, I found that Mr. Monford had covered it in both
the writing and the video. One of the worse problems with the
instructions is that they attempt to cover all his boat designs.

I did learn a lot about boat building through constructing the Classic
10 and may attempt another skin on frame boat such as the Providence
River Boat designed by Robert Morris and described in Building
Skin-on-Frame Boats. The Morris shop is about 1.5 hours north in
Vancouver, BC. After starting the Classic 10,  I discovered that the
dealer who sells nylon and polyester boat covering is just minutes
from my house.

I would like to pass along a couple of things I did that may be useful
for others. I am going to try to put the photos up on this site. For
the strong back, I used .5 inch OSB, cut 12" wide and 2x4's. That
provided a handy place to put the stringers and ribs during
construction. The plans call for using marine plywood on the transom
and stem. Plywood is expensive and I don't like working with it
anyway, so I edge glued hardwood for the stem and 3/4"  Douglas fir
for the transom.  For the seats I cut ash into 1.5 x .75 inches, glued
that together and wove 2"  nylon strips for the seat.
The middle seat has double thick ash and I will put some kind of brace
on the stern seat. I have two sets of oar locks, one for the middle
seat and one set for rowing from the bow. I put a brass washer over
the brass pipe in the oarlock. I could not find bronze pipe that Mr.
Monford calls for in the oarlock. If the brass wears out I will go to
traditional upright dowels for the oarlock and leather fastened on the
oars. I used twice as many ribs as the plans call for because I
believed that the red cedar I used was not strong enough. I did not
use the Kevlar roving since the extra ribs stiffened the frame. Time
will tell if this is a mistake. I painted the frame and the hull white
using semi-gloss latex acrylic house paint. If I had it to do over I
would spray polyurethane on the frame since it was horrible brushing
paint on all the surfaces. I am OK with the white hull.

Well, Platt passed in 2005, so I doubt that we will see improved instructions
from that source (I at least do not have a direct channel :-)  Plans and kit
boat building projects can range from "cookie cutter" to "learning experience". 
I strongly suspect that what Platt Monfort had in mind was toward the "learning
experience" end of that spectrum; I'm pretty sure that I recollect more than one
occasion when he referred to the GA method as "an easy way to get started in
boatbuilding", or words to that effect.

Comparing Western red cedar to Doug fir (probably one of the species that  Platt
was assuming we would get at the lumber yard to cut down), you probably did the
right thing.  Weight should be nearly a wash and your boat frame (not
considering the Kevlar issue) could be stronger - red cedar weighs about half
what Doug fir does, but has upwards of 60% of the strength.  OTOH if large
dimensional lumber sold recently at the big box stores is predominantly SYP,
which I read, the weight penalty compared to Doug fir would be 5-6% for
approximately the same strength (number from:
http://www.ocfp.com/wood_comp.htm).

Regarding bronze tube, National Bronze in Michigan has it, and claims to cut to
length and ship with no minimum quantity:
http://www.nationalbronze.com/bartube.php

-Roland


--- On Sat, 8/16/08, ekmanemil <ekmanemil@...> wrote:

> From: ekmanemil <ekmanemil@...>
> Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Classic 10 Reflections
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:56 PM
> I finished constructed a Classic 10 and overall it was a
> good
> experience and I have  the product I wanted; a lightweight
> car top
> rowboat for fishing the lakes and maybe some salmon fishing
> and
> crabbing in the protected bays in the sound.
>
> I found this discussion group very helpful when I got to
> the point
> where the Dacron had to go on. Up till than the woodworking
> part of
> the job was not difficult. Still, there were many points
> that should
> have been in the instructions, like tracing out the
> patterns and
> transferring that information to the forms.
>
> Technical writing is a hard task. It can be hard to know
> how much
> information to put in and in what form. Pictures can be
> very useful
> and sometimes a good drawing is better than a video. I
> found myself
> sleuthing through any picture of the boats for answers. The
> Monford
> written directions and video, while workable, could use a
> severe
> editing and re-filming. For example, I had a question about
> when to
> stick down the stitch and glue along the keelson and had
> that answered
> by the group. Later, I found that Mr. Monford had covered
> it in both
> the writing and the video. One of the worse problems with
> the
> instructions is that they attempt to cover all his boat
> designs.
>
> I did learn a lot about boat building through constructing
> the Classic
> 10 and may attempt another skin on frame boat such as the
> Providence
> River Boat designed by Robert Morris and described in
> Building
> Skin-on-Frame Boats. The Morris shop is about 1.5 hours
> north in
> Vancouver, BC. After starting the Classic 10,  I discovered
> that the
> dealer who sells nylon and polyester boat covering is just
> minutes
> from my house.
>
> I would like to pass along a couple of things I did that
> may be useful
> for others. I am going to try to put the photos up on this
> site. For
> the strong back, I used .5 inch OSB, cut 12" wide and
> 2x4's. That
> provided a handy place to put the stringers and ribs during
> construction. The plans call for using marine plywood on
> the transom
> and stem. Plywood is expensive and I don't like working
> with it
> anyway, so I edge glued hardwood for the stem and 3/4"
>  Douglas fir
> for the transom.  For the seats I cut ash into 1.5 x .75
> inches, glued
> that together and wove 2"  nylon strips for the seat.
> The middle seat has double thick ash and I will put some
> kind of brace
> on the stern seat. I have two sets of oar locks, one for
> the middle
> seat and one set for rowing from the bow. I put a brass
> washer over
> the brass pipe in the oarlock. I could not find bronze pipe
> that Mr.
> Monford calls for in the oarlock. If the brass wears out I
> will go to
> traditional upright dowels for the oarlock and leather
> fastened on the
> oars. I used twice as many ribs as the plans call for
> because I
> believed that the red cedar I used was not strong enough. I
> did not
> use the Kevlar roving since the extra ribs stiffened the
> frame. Time
> will tell if this is a mistake. I painted the frame and the
> hull white
> using semi-gloss latex acrylic house paint. If I had it to
> do over I
> would spray polyurethane on the frame since it was horrible
> brushing
> paint on all the surfaces. I am OK with the white hull.

Joel:

If you have used the Torqueedo enough at this point, would it be possible to
provide some real world performance data in the Classic 10?  Particularly range
with a given AH battery capacity?  Thanks,

Roland


--- On Mon, 8/18/08, Joel Fairstein <castle1925@...> wrote:

> From: Joel Fairstein <castle1925@...>
> Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Classic 10 Reflections - More
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 8:50 AM
> To add to Beau's excellent observations:
>
> On my Classic 10, I built the rear seat using Dacron
> covering with
> heat 'n bond applied to the sides and bottom of the
> seat rails. I
> weigh 175, and the heat 'n bond just won't hold the
> fabric in place
> over repeated sittings. I ended up stapling on some vinyl
> strips
> under the sides, but am still having the sags. Ironing
> helps some,
> but it would have been simpler to use a store-bought or
> caned seat.
>
> The front seat is a wooden stool purchased at Wal-Mart
> whose legs I
> notched to fit between the floorboards. This way, the
> passenger can
> slide the seat fore and aft about 12". I can remove
> the seat for solo
> fishing trips. And yes, even a seven-pound striper will tow
> the boat!
>
> For lakes and rivers, I highly recommend a Torqeedo motor
> (with an
> extra battery) for the Classic 10, although expensive. I
> made the
> transom out of 3/4" ply and oriented it nearly
> perpendicular for
> motor use. I didn't see any need in my application for
> the Kevlar
> roving and have not missed it.
>
> Joel Fairstein
> /////////////////////
> Solar Labs
> 1006 North Mary St
> Knoxville, TN 37914
> info@...
> v 865.523.4313
> f  865.523.4846
> www.solar-labs.com
>
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2008, at 7:52 AM, bschless@... wrote:
>
> >
> > I built a Classic 10 last winter.  I also had troubles
> with Platt's
> > instructions.  His widow was as helpful as she could
> be; but she
> > wasn't Platt.  The video was near worthless.  The
> professionally
> > done one is great and worth the extra money.
> >
> > I didn't understand how important it was to place
> the ribs "just
> > so". You need to make where they will go on the
> stringers (all of
> > them) so you can position them exactly right.
> Otherwise they won't
> > be straight.
> >
> > Don't paint, polyurethane it.  It looks cooler to
> be able to see
> > through it.  And don't let the paint/varnish run.
> It's what will
> > show the most when the boat is in the water.
> >
> > I bought commercial bronze oarlocks and  pinions.
> When I decided
> > to add a second pair I went to a TrueValue hardware
> store and found
> > excellent bronze fittings for the pinions in the
> screws and
> > hardware section. Don't know what they're
> supposed to be there for,
> > but they fit an oarlock perfectly.   I now use these,
> and not the
> > commercial ones.
> >
> > The seat position on the 10 is way of (way too far
> aft).  When a
> > 125 lb. second person is in the boat it practically
> sinks at the
> > stern.  I solved this by building an adjustable middle
> seat (on
> > rails).  I now keep the seat in the forward position
> all the time.
> > Could have saved weight and work by positioning the
> seat forward in
> > the first place. If you want a picture of the rails
> design email me.
> >
> > The boat makes a great rowboat, but the gunwales are
> is a little
> > low when you get in rough seas.  The problem is that
> the oars hit
> > the chop.  Don't know how you could solve this
> without redesigning
> > the boat, unless you built up the rowing blocks.
> >
> > While you're building her, put in a trolling rod
> holder. I built a
> > 2" x 2" block with a 1" hole in the
> center that I epoxied to the
> > middle floorboard and transom.  On the top edge of the
> transom I
> > use 2 little brass screws and a rubber band to hold my
> rod upright.
> > Then when a fish strikes I pull off the rubber band
> and away we
> > go.  I'm wondering if I get a big enough Striper
> if it will pull my
> > Classic 10!
> >
> > I bought beautiful split cane seats from a canoe seat
> place in the
> > Adirondacks.  They look great, but were a) expensive,
> b) heavy, and
> > c) not home made. So I suggest making your own.
> >
> > Keep the weight down.  My boat probably weighs in at
> 70 pounds
> > (with oars, life preservers, etc). It's too damn
> heavy to lift.  I
> > have a set of wheels I use to take it back and forth
> to the beach.
> > Next boat will be minimalist!
> >
> > The boat has been used all summer with great success.
> I live at
> > the mouth of the ocean and use it to cross the bay at
> least 3 - 4
> > times per week.  It is an able and great rower.  I
> need to figure
> > out how to put floatation in it before the inevitable
> capsize.
> >
> >
> > Beau Schless
> > President/CEO
> > NOTEbookS Library Automation Systems
> > Celebrating 15 years exceeding customers'
> expectations
> > HTTP://WWW.RASCO.COM
> > PH: 1.(978) 443-2996
> >
> >

Time is approaching to start my Black Fly pram. At the library I found
Robert Morris's book "Building Skin-on-Frame Boats" in which he says
12oz Ballistic Nylon is his covering fabric of choice.
Has anyone on this forum tried this material?
Thanks.
Peter

I have a copy of the Morris book, but I'm unable to find it at the
moment.  Any membrane that is or can be made waterproof and will
shrink can work with the GA method.  I think the latter attribute is
critical - the forces induced by shrinking are core to the design and
construction process for these boats.  Not that it would be impossible
to build one otherwise, but you would need to substitute stretching
techniques for shrinking to achieve the required tension/compression,
and afaik that would put you in poorly charted territory with respect
to these designs.

-Roland

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "pjacobs55" <prjacobs@...> wrote:
>
> Time is approaching to start my Black Fly pram. At the library I found
> Robert Morris's book "Building Skin-on-Frame Boats" in which he says
> 12oz Ballistic Nylon is his covering fabric of choice.
> Has anyone on this forum tried this material?
> Thanks.
> Peter
>

This is worth investigating. The alternative use of woven nylon
threads as opposed to woven polyester thread fabric.
In the airplane and sailing world, my understanding is that polyester
is used chiefly because of the ability to build in UV inhibitors
in a way that cannot be done with nylon.  Also I do not know if
nylon fabric can be heat shrunk like polyester fabric can.

Note that both nylon and polyester are extruded synthetic plastic
type fibers that can vary by length and diameter and then
be spun into larger threads.

I had a slight academic background in textile engineering over
30 years ago.

I assume in the book no mention is made of why nylon is chosen
as opposed to polyester or you would have mentioned it.  We do
know that nylon used in rope is stronger than polyester used
in rope so the fabric of equivalent weight could also be stronger.
If completely covered with paint and protected from UV, maybe
it could be better.

I had a slight academic background in textile engineering over
30 years ago.
Scott


pjacobs55 wrote:
>
> Time is approaching to start my Black Fly pram. At the library I found
> Robert Morris's book "Building Skin-on-Frame Boats" in which he says
> 12oz Ballistic Nylon is his covering fabric of choice.
> Has anyone on this forum tried this material?
> Thanks.
> Peter
>
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