Why do you call it sizing ?  It sounds to me like it is just
one of the normal steps in the construction.
What exactly are you asking ?


noneof yourbusiness wrote:
>
> Good question!.. I'm just about there myself and would
> sure like to hear what others have done.
>
> Paul T
>
> --- bschless <bschless@...> wrote:
>
> > I was thinking maybe I'd use spray Polyeurethane to
> > size the kevlar.
> > It would give my wood a nice extra gloss coat at the
> > same time.  Any
> > suggstions/disuassions?
> >
> >
>
>      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> Good question!.. I'm just about there myself and would
> sure like to hear what others have done.

I used shellac, applied with a brush. It dries in a couple of minutes, is a snap
to clean up, and it does the trick.

Ken Muldrew.

I built the ARROW14 (see in album: moszczak_arrow14).

When it came to the waterproof coating on the dacron, I used a
WATERBASED POLYURETHANE...as opposed to the commonly carried, oil-
based
polyurethanes in the market.   I had to go to a paint speciality
store
to get this stuff, because the "big-box Hardware stores" didn't
carry "water-based polyurethane."   Most of these idiots didn't know
what I was talking about!   I went home and double-checked my
sources...believe me ...they make it!

The major reason I chose this, WATER-BASED is that, from information
from
other builders and other users, I found that the oil-based
polyurethane, tended to turn the dacron slightly yellow...with
several coatings...(I did a few test squares to prove it to myself)
I found that...the water-based stuff keeps the dacron pure
white... "like the new fallen snow on the convent roof."  This only
makes a difference, if you care about this dacron color aspect of
appearance of your craft.  I cared!

As I said it's difficult, but not impossible to find water based
product, especially if you
go to a "paint specialty store"  ...where people know what they're
talking
about, when it come to paints and coverings...furthermore, forget the
advice from idiots at the big national chain
hardware stores...you don't want them 'guessing' on some product to
cover YOUR water-craft that YOU SPENT HOURS TO BUILD, do you?

Specifically I used a product called: "PETRI DREAM, WATER DISPERSED
POLYURETHANE...it's
made in the USA (it's not cheap at $13 per quart...but Hey, it's my
canoe).   I found that I used less than one quart to cover two
application coatings
of my ARROW14, inside and out, applying the
initial coating...wait till dry...then apply the second coating.

The product itself is "very thin", watery, and milky white in color
in the container, about the
consistency and appearance of skim milk.  They recommend not shaking
or stiring..to avoid air bubbles
  To apply I used several
disposable SPONGE rollers (forget using the fabric roller
covers...they soak up too much material).  Also, I used a small
sash paint brush, for minor touch-ups and application near the
heat&bond tape  areas near the gunnels.

I also found one very good suggestion, from these pages...that
being...use an automotive drop-light (or some other good lamp) to
back-light the dacron, from inside your vessel, to view the
skin, when applying the polyurethane...it helps you to spot, missed
areas, drips, and "pinhole" leak areas.

Once finshed, and dry, this product dries invisibly...except for a
very light, and pleasing "sheen" on the dacron surface...but as I
said the craft surface remains pure white...not yellow, as with oil-
base stuff might appear.

The product I used can be sourced, on line. from,

   "www.petripaintcompany.com"  ,

located in Newark New Jersey( just in case you get it shipped).

Hope this helps...it's one persons experience!
Oh yes, I forgot the ARROW14 floats...appears water-tight!  How will
it last?...time will tell.

Mike O.



--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Ken Muldrew <kmuldrew@...>
wrote:
>
> > Good question!.. I'm just about there myself and would
> > sure like to hear what others have done.
>
> I used shellac, applied with a brush. It dries in a couple of
minutes, is a snap
> to clean up, and it does the trick.
>
> Ken Muldrew.
>

An excellent water based polyurethane for sizing or coating wood or
dacron is System Three WR-LPU. It comes in satin, gloss and colors.
This is a two part water based inear polyurethane. I used the colored
version on my ply/epoxy catamaran and used the clear version for
coating the wood and sizing on my GA classic. It can be found at many
marine chandleries or ordered direct from System Three. Expensive but
very tough and easy to use.

I have a Nimrod 12 short kit that I'm just not going to get around to
building. I would like it to find a new home for it. It's still in the
original box it came in. I'll sell it for $100 and I will pay the postage.

Thanks
Bob Lundberg
Duluth, Mn
218 525-6350

How do I get a copy of the GA build-up process DVD?  Thanks.

You can send a check in the amount of $37 to me:

Joel Silverman
14910 46th Place North
Plymouth, MN 55446

I can ship one to you as soon as I receive the check.

Thanks

Joel
612-203-2621
--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "latham158" <rlatham@...> wrote:
>
> How do I get a copy of the GA build-up process DVD?  Thanks.
>

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Elliot Mednick" <elliot@...>
wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the Nimrod DVD?  I didn't buy it because I
thought it
> would be too specific to the Nimrod and wouldn't apply to, say, the
Classic
> 14.
>
>
>
> Are there any DVDs still available?
>
>
>
> --Elliot
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm just fnishing a 10 foot boat.  I so wish I had had the DVD from the
> start!  It's much better than Platt's.  Buy it!
>
Elliot:

I have both DVDs, and plans for several of Platt's designs, both canoe
and wherry forms.  I think that much if not most the material in the
Nimrod DVD is applicable to your Classic project.  And if you have
Platt's video (which is about a Classic build) as well, all bases
should be covered.  Regarding "better than Platt's", that is certainly
true of the organization of the video and David Dean's on-camera
presence.  I'm not convinced at this point that the material itself is
superior, but I can at least stay awake watching it late at night.  I
have and always will have an enormous amount of respect for Mr.
Monfort's accomplishments, but my guess is that quintessential old
salt Mainers typically don't make great presenters :-)

-Roland

The Ancient Mariners are building a 12' Classic sailboat. We are
bending 200 year old oak flooring from a torn down church for ribs. We
rigged up a way to soak them in very hot water for about 20 minutes. We
needed 19 ribs. we bent 21. Three broke!!

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "sanford cont" <sandyroz@...>
wrote:
>
> The Ancient Mariners are building a 12' Classic sailboat. We are
> bending 200 year old oak flooring from a torn down church for ribs. We
> rigged up a way to soak them in very hot water for about 20 minutes. We
> needed 19 ribs. we bent 21. Three broke!!
>
So, the Ancient Mariners will be needing another rib stake?

-Roland

Howdy list,
  I never built a boat before. Phew, got that off my chest. I took on
the Sweat-Pea MK2 project to do with my kids this winter. I've just
cracked the plans, watched the Monfort video and been watching this
list for a month.

I would like to know if anyone has problems with the Kevlar coming
loose after construction. I see in the plans and the Monfort video
that it is only held on at the gunwale with heatnbond with the Dacron
over it. My inexperienced head can't imagine that it could hold that
little surface area of the Kevlar very well. Wouldn't it just pull
right free or am I underestimating the adhesive power of this the
heatnbond? I don't want to experiment because I don't know if I have
extra in the bought materials kit.

Second question, is there an archive of this list that can be searched?

Thank you.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: jestobrising

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:16 PM

Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Howdy list,
I never built a boat before. Phew, got that off my chest. I took on
the Sweat-Pea MK2 project to do with my kids this winter. I've just
cracked the plans, watched the Monfort video and been watching this
list for a month.

I would like to know if anyone has problems with the Kevlar coming
loose after construction. I see in the plans and the Monfort video
that it is only held on at the gunwale with heatnbond with the Dacron
over it. My inexperienced head can't imagine that it could hold that
little surface area of the Kevlar very well. Wouldn't it just pull
right free or am I underestimating the adhesive power of this the
heatnbond? I don't want to experiment because I don't know if I have
extra in the bought materials kit.

Second question, is there an archive of this list that can be searched?

Thank you.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: AUGUST HAHN

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:01 PM

Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

A lot of people are but off on the application of dacron and of heat srinking the fabric.any suggestions to ally their fears.

----- Original Message ----
From: mike&jane_osz <mosz@frontiernet.net>
To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 2:03:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Jeff,

I don't know about the Sweet-Pea plans, per se...but I did build the ARROW14.  That plan set calls for "Heat n Bond" tape at the gunwales as well.  The tape is pretty amazing stuff, if it is applied correctly to the gunwale with the hot iron, as Platt suggested in his plans.  

At least on the ARROW14, an additional wooden rub-rail is fasted over top of the Dacron/gunwale,  with wood screws every second rib, to "pinch" the Dacron tight between two layers of wood.

 

One other thing..."Heat- n-Bond" tape is also sold at JOANNE FABRICS stores...many a retail mall contains this store...they supply several heat ranges and sizes ( I found the exact stuff that came in the ARROW14 kit at one of the stores).  Many a seamstress will use the Heat_n_Bond tape to permanently bond a garment or clothing hem.    That store might be the place to pick up an experimental supply (it's about $3-bucks) to "calm your fears."   As I said, the tape is amazing stuff, very strong in shear...not so strong in "peel tension."

Some of the photos in the albums might be of help to you...I recall that I posted several showing the taping at the gunwale.

 

hope it helps,

 

Mike O.   ( album under....."moszczak _Arrow14" )

 

----- Original Message -----

From: jestobrising

To: Airolite_Boats@ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:16 PM

Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Howdy list,
I never built a boat before. Phew, got that off my chest. I took on
the Sweat-Pea MK2 project to do with my kids this winter. I've just
cracked the plans, watched the Monfort video and been watching this
list for a month.

I would like to know if anyone has problems with the Kevlar coming
loose after construction. I see in the plans and the Monfort video
that it is only held on at the gunwale with heatnbond with the Dacron
over it. My inexperienced head can't imagine that it could hold that
little surface area of the Kevlar very well. Wouldn't it just pull
right free or am I underestimating the adhesive power of this the
heatnbond? I don't want to experiment because I don't know if I have
extra in the bought materials kit.

Second question, is there an archive of this list that can be searched?

Thank you.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike O.

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 5:31 PM

Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

August, (and all first timers),

 

The greatest fear is that of the unknown.

 

I was apprehensive as anyone, when I built my ARROW14,  without any outside help ( there were no other "airolite" builders in my neighborhood), other than Platt's instructions...and of course the very fine photos available on this web site.

 

I considered myself a reasonably adept woodworker...but I knew nothing about DACRON application...or shrinking.

 

What got me over the hump was looking at the photos of school kids (6th and 7th graders) putting their respective crafts together.   I just figured...IF THEY CAN DO IT...then, I CAN DO IT.   And you know...that was the secret...just taking that first step.

 

One thing...I had virtually never ironed a shirt in my life...secondly, my wife refused to let me use her clothes iron on my "experimental craft."   So,  I went out and bought my own clothes iron...BUT I WAS SURE TO GET ONE WITH A TEMPERATURE SETTING Thermostat...especially look for one that has a low/mid-range setting,  in the "Silk & Dacron" range.  

 

To get some experimental pieces, I trimmed pieces off the main cloth, after draping the Dacon over the frame of my ARROW14...making sure I had enough to do the covering job...I cut off several small, 1-foot-sq. sections, to use as "experimental pieces" on a small (1-foot x 1-foot, wood frame)....this gave me some confidence in my iron temperature settings..SILK & DACRON  was about right......and my ability to work the HEAT n BOND tape and fabric at the same time...........this step took me about one hour to master (maybe that's hubris on my part...but I just felt i was ready to go). 

Interesting thing about the HEAT n BOND tape, but it turns transparent( from whiteish on the spool) when it's well adhered to the wood surface...I recommend using whatever "parent wood"  you use to construct your craft...My gunwales were made of ash...so my experimental frame was made of the parent ash wood.

 

Finally, once I got used to working with the DACRON on my ARROW14, craft's frame, it was almost as much fun as the woodworking, that I enjoy so much...believe me you will get plenty of practiceworking the dacron and tape by the time you're done your first build !    SHRINKING the Dacron skin was also fun...I cheated a bit,  by tweaking the temperature slightly higher than the DACRON/SILK setting on the iron...it(shrinking) just went so much faster at a higher setting...and I finally realized that you would have to fall asleep with the iron, in one spot, to really harm the dacron...but nice and easy does it!  YOU WILL DEVELOP YOUR OWN TECHNIQUE THAT WORKS FOR YOU!!!!      It was fun watching the wrinkles and creases disappear before your very eyes,as the Dacron skin pulls taunt! 

 

As Platt says, in his instructions, ....JUST DO IT  !!!       ( sorry NIKE, didn't mean to mess up your sneeker commercial, but Platt was there first with the comment).

 

REMEMBER if a sixth grader can do it...then you can do it!

 

Remember also, you will get experience, REPULLING the Kevlar Roving as well...this turn out to be much fun as well...and you will get to know it by FEEL of the roving slipping beneath the reheated tape / dacron composite, as well.

 

Good luck, and just go for it...remember those sixth graders...they did it...you can too!

 

Mike O.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: AUGUST HAHN

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:01 PM

Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

A lot of people are but off on the application of dacron and of heat srinking the fabric.any suggestions to ally their fears.

----- Original Message ----
From: mike&jane_osz <mosz@frontiernet.net>
To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 2:03:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Jeff,

I don't know about the Sweet-Pea plans, per se...but I did build the ARROW14.  That plan set calls for "Heat n Bond" tape at the gunwales as well.  The tape is pretty amazing stuff, if it is applied correctly to the gunwale with the hot iron, as Platt suggested in his plans.  

At least on the ARROW14, an additional wooden rub-rail is fasted over top of the Dacron/gunwale,  with wood screws every second rib, to "pinch" the Dacron tight between two layers of wood.

 

One other thing..."Heat- n-Bond" tape is also sold at JOANNE FABRICS stores...many a retail mall contains this store...they supply several heat ranges and sizes ( I found the exact stuff that came in the ARROW14 kit at one of the stores).  Many a seamstress will use the Heat_n_Bond tape to permanently bond a garment or clothing hem.    That store might be the place to pick up an experimental supply (it's about $3-bucks) to "calm your fears."   As I said, the tape is amazing stuff, very strong in shear...not so strong in "peel tension."

Some of the photos in the albums might be of help to you...I recall that I posted several showing the taping at the gunwale.

 

hope it helps,

 

Mike O.   ( album under....."moszczak _Arrow14" )

 

----- Original Message -----

From: jestobrising

To: Airolite_Boats@ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:16 PM

Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Howdy list,
I never built a boat before. Phew, got that off my chest. I took on
the Sweat-Pea MK2 project to do with my kids this winter. I've just
cracked the plans, watched the Monfort video and been watching this
list for a month.

I would like to know if anyone has problems with the Kevlar coming
loose after construction. I see in the plans and the Monfort video
that it is only held on at the gunwale with heatnbond with the Dacron
over it. My inexperienced head can't imagine that it could hold that
little surface area of the Kevlar very well. Wouldn't it just pull
right free or am I underestimating the adhesive power of this the
heatnbond? I don't want to experiment because I don't know if I have
extra in the bought materials kit.

Second question, is there an archive of this list that can be searched?

Thank you.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:22 PM

Subject: RE: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Hey Mike, I have plans for the Arrow 14, but little time to build right now…..you enthusiasm is inspiring.

Cheers, PaulW

---

From: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike O.
Sent: February 8, 2008 7:31 PM
To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

August, (and all first timers),

The greatest fear is that of the unknown.

I was apprehensive as anyone, when I built my ARROW14,  without any outside help ( there were no other "airolite" builders in my neighborhood), other than Platt's instructions...and of course the very fine photos available on this web site.

I considered myself a reasonably adept woodworker...but I knew nothing about DACRON application...or shrinking.

What got me over the hump was looking at the photos of school kids (6th and 7th graders) putting their respective crafts together.   I just figured...IF THEY CAN DO IT...then, I CAN DO IT.   And you know...that was the secret...just taking that first step.

One thing...I had virtually never ironed a shirt in my life...secondly, my wife refused to let me use her clothes iron on my "experimental craft."   So,  I went out and bought my own clothes iron...BUT I WAS SURE TO GET ONE WITH A TEMPERATURE SETTING Thermostat...especially look for one that has a low/mid-range setting,  in the "Silk & Dacron" range.  

To get some experimental pieces, I trimmed pieces off the main cloth, after draping the Dacon over the frame of my ARROW14...making sure I had enough to do the covering job...I cut off several small, 1-foot-sq. sections, to use as "experimental pieces" on a small (1-foot x 1-foot, wood frame)....this gave me some confidence in my iron temperature settings..SILK & DACRON  was about right......and my ability to work the HEAT n BOND tape and fabric at the same time...........this step took me about one hour to master (maybe that's hubris on my part...but I just felt i was ready to go). 

Interesting thing about the HEAT n BOND tape, but it turns transparent( from whiteish on the spool) when it's well adhered to the wood surface...I recommend using whatever "parent wood"  you use to construct your craft...My gunwales were made of ash...so my experimental frame was made of the parent ash wood.

Finally, once I got used to working with the DACRON on my ARROW14, craft's frame, it was almost as much fun as the woodworking, that I enjoy so much...believe me you will get plenty of practiceworking the dacron and tape by the time you're done your first build !    SHRINKING the Dacron skin was also fun...I cheated a bit,  by tweaking the temperature slightly higher than the DACRON/SILK setting on the iron...it(shrinking) just went so much faster at a higher setting...and I finally realized that you would have to fall asleep with the iron, in one spot, to really harm the dacron...but nice and easy does it!  YOU WILL DEVELOP YOUR OWN TECHNIQUE THAT WORKS FOR YOU!!!!      It was fun watching the wrinkles and creases disappear before your very eyes,as the Dacron skin pulls taunt! 

As Platt says, in his instructions, ....JUST DO IT  !!!       ( sorry NIKE, didn't mean to mess up your sneeker commercial, but Platt was there first with the comment).

REMEMBER if a sixth grader can do it...then you can do it!

Remember also, you will get experience, REPULLING the Kevlar Roving as well...this turn out to be much fun as well...and you will get to know it by FEEL of the roving slipping beneath the reheated tape / dacron composite, as well.

Good luck, and just go for it...remember those sixth graders...they did it...you can too!

Mike O.

----- Original Message -----

From: AUGUST HAHN

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:01 PM

Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

A lot of people are but off on the application of dacron and of heat srinking the fabric.any suggestions to ally their fears.

----- Original Message ----
From: mike&jane_osz <mosz@frontiernet.net>
To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 2:03:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Jeff,

I don't know about the Sweet-Pea plans, per se...but I did build the ARROW14.  That plan set calls for "Heat n Bond" tape at the gunwales as well.  The tape is pretty amazing stuff, if it is applied correctly to the gunwale with the hot iron, as Platt suggested in his plans.  

At least on the ARROW14, an additional wooden rub-rail is fasted over top of the Dacron/gunwale,  with wood screws every second rib, to "pinch" the Dacron tight between two layers of wood.

One other thing..."Heat- n-Bond" tape is also sold at JOANNE FABRICS stores...many a retail mall contains this store...they supply several heat ranges and sizes ( I found the exact stuff that came in the ARROW14 kit at one of the stores).  Many a seamstress will use the Heat_n_Bond tape to permanently bond a garment or clothing hem.    That store might be the place to pick up an experimental supply (it's about $3-bucks) to "calm your fears."   As I said, the tape is amazing stuff, very strong in shear...not so strong in "peel tension."

Some of the photos in the albums might be of help to you...I recall that I posted several showing the taping at the gunwale.

hope it helps,

Mike O.   ( album under....."moszczak _Arrow14" )

----- Original Message -----

From: jestobrising

To: Airolite_Boats@ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:16 PM

Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Kevlar adhesive question & List searchable archive?

Howdy list,
I never built a boat before. Phew, got that off my chest. I took on
the Sweat-Pea MK2 project to do with my kids this winter. I've just
cracked the plans, watched the Monfort video and been watching this
list for a month.

I would like to know if anyone has problems with the Kevlar coming
loose after construction. I see in the plans and the Monfort video
that it is only held on at the gunwale with heatnbond with the Dacron
over it. My inexperienced head can't imagine that it could hold that
little surface area of the Kevlar very well. Wouldn't it just pull
right free or am I underestimating the adhesive power of this the
heatnbond? I don't want to experiment because I don't know if I have
extra in the bought materials kit.

Second question, is there an archive of this list that can be searched?

Thank you.

Jeff

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1265 - Release Date: 07/02/2008 11:17 AM

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1265 - Release Date: 07/02/2008 11:17 AM

We uses the broken rib of the 2 piece one