Airolite_Boats : Messages : 1563-1592 of 1634

mrkfortney@...

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Brian Willan <bwillan@...> wrote:

�

Greetings

I was watching the youtube videos on the construction of the nimrod. In
the first video it shows a close up of the material cut list. I noticed
something odd. The stringers are all 12' long pieces of stock, despite
the canoe being listed as 12' long.

So how is the overall length of a boat measured? Is it the straight
line distance from bow to stern down the center? Or does it follow the
curve of the boat? Obviously, if taking into account the beam width, a
12' stringer or gunwale length will be shorter on the end to end
measurement due to the outward bend in the piece.

So if some knows the answer to this question, I will be able to get a
better idea of how much stock I will need to construct my 16' Arrow.
Since 16' is the longest readily available length of construction
material, I would want to avoid doing an excessive number of scarf
joints to get the right length of materials that my boat will require.

Thanks

Brian

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#1564

From: Marianne Guidos <mgdsmar@...>
Date: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:39 pm
Subject: Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.

mariannefort

mrkfortney@...

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Roger L <rogerlov@...> wrote:

�

I drive an lightweight kevlar canoe. 38 lbs. Seats two, but really made for one. Fast and unstable. We had several near flips and one day we turned over in some fairly mild water just because we both�turned our heads at the same moment to look at a passing boat.�So we added klunky outriggers.�What a difference! They weigh almost nothing, and�the drag is negligible. After all, only one is�in the water at any time and it is just skimming.��If you balance perfectly, neither outrigger needs to touch. All in all, the tiny�additional drag is more than offset by the�fact that I can lean over and really get the paddle in the water when I want to. Now it won't tip no matter what.�Assembly time is about a minute.�And it is stable enough that we are comfortable where things used to be dicey.

�

An Airolite would be the perfect application. I love his designs, and think the old boy would approve. After all, he was nothing if not innovative.

�

It would be easy to make them nicer. BTW, a canoe only needs one beam piece. All the aluminum pieces are�7/8" diam. x 1/16" wall aluminum. Probably tent poles. These outriggers are crap trap floats...2 per side, back to back..�

I'll post a picture labeled: "Outriggers". ��

�� Luck,� Roger L. �

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis O

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:36 PM

Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Seekimg a solo tub approach.

I have never built a complete watercraft of any sort but I have been studying on this forum, books, magazines and other forums for years. If stability is your concern you do not need to go to such complicated lengths. The solution is simply a wider beam.

It will be slightly slower but if age is an issue you are slightly slower as well--I'm 62--I understand. I too have had aluminum canoes. Most aluminum canoes get at least some of their stability from width not just weight. Also, it is a matter of inches, some times as little as 4 inches. Go back to the forum (where the real experts_I am not) and ask about widening slightly one of the stock designs (for example 2" on either side of the centerline).

Widening would be much easier and less bulky than out riggers. A twin hull design would be stable but you are doubling the drag. 2-4" of width at the beam would gain the stability without the great increase in drag.

One other note--chose something slightly longer because the stringers need to twist from the center to the stems. Extra width will compound the twist. spreading it over greater length will make it easier to build.

Still, ask the real experts.

Dennis

--- On Thu, 1/10/13, george <kf2oc@...> wrote:

From: george <kf2oc@...>
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Seekimg a solo tub approach.
To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 5:43 AM

�

Just an aged�newby to this group.� Had owned 15 and 17 foot standard weight aluminum canoes for many decades and many uses.� Now need a much lighter hull for use for nearby flat water fishing and�flexible cartop to drop-in uses.� Need 300 pound capacity, with modestly high seat (due to reduced flexibility with aging).� Probably of quite modest length.

Perhaps a stubby hull such as dinks use.� This to improve roll stability.� Due to reduced heading stability, am feeling the use of a double paddle�may be useful.� Have previously constructed oars with cupped blades, as a base for producing such paddles.

Had developed a prenchant for adjustable seating height from canoe uses.�The lower position for navigating, with the highter position used after anchoring.� Height change could just be a temporarily added seat riser, inserted when conditions permit or after anchoring.

Had noted the Airolite style quite some years ago, but I am not very familiar with current design ranges.� Has anyone considered using a dual hulled, cat-style design to gain roll stability at minimal displacements?� Maybe this could use a form suited to a two-off construction approach for the pair of hulls, with the wing between them providing the basic seating position with just one foot positioned within each hull.

Does anyone have comments, suggestions or a basis for related approaches?�

Many thanks, George.

�

�

#1565

From: "Roger L" <rogerlov@...>
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Boat length Measurement question

roger_scotty

I used to be afraid of scarfing. What I did to fix that was to build a simple jig out of scrap wood so that I could clamp a stringer in the jig and run the circular saw against one side of the jig. Not knowing what was best, I made it for a 7:1 scarf. The result was a perfect scarf angle every time. No sanding required - just enough to break the glaze left by the saw - and the joint would always fit exactly. Then to test if it worked, I clamped and glued half a dozen scarfs up to make a single long stringer about 20 feet long.

( Be sure to lock the scarfs prior to gluing with a couple of finish nails or the joint will slide)

Figured I'd use the long stringer as a batten for drawing long smooth curves. Flexing it to draw curves would give a chance to see how it stood up to stress and whether the glue joints took the same bend as the were the same. To my surprise, it performed as though it was one piece of wood. It's still fine and been over 20 years now....and there are far better glues today. This one is stored across the rafters of my workshop.

Roger L.

Don't be afraid of scarfing. One of my boats is 18.5' and I had to scarf every lengthwise piece. Make a little jig to hold both pieces beside each other. Sand at a shallow angle with a belt sander (or saw, but you'll need this pretty smooth to glue it). You will always get a 180 degree joint.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#1566

From: Brian Willan <bwillan@...>
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:09 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Boat length Measurement question

On 1/13/13 10:55 AM, Roger L wrote:

I used to be afraid of scarfing. What I did to fix that was to build a simple jig out of scrap wood so that I could clamp a stringer in the jig and run the circular saw against one side of the jig. Not knowing what was best, I made it for a 7:1 scarf. The result was a perfect scarf angle every time. No sanding required - just enough to break the glaze left by the saw - and the joint would always fit exactly. Then to test if it worked, I clamped and glued half a dozen scarfs up to make a single long stringer about 20 feet long.

( Be sure to lock the scarfs prior to gluing with a couple of finish nails or the joint will slide)

Figured I'd use the long stringer as a batten for drawing long smooth curves. Flexing it to draw curves would give a chance to see how it stood up to stress and whether the glue joints took the same bend as the were the same. To my surprise, it performed as though it was one piece of wood. It's still fine and been over 20 years now....and there are far better glues today. This one is stored across the rafters of my workshop.

Thanks for the tips there, Roger. Do you happen to have a picture of your scarfing jig that you could post? I've come to the conclusion that I will have to scarf all of the lengthwise pieces due to the length of the Arrow that I am going to build. For the gunwales, inwales and rub rails, the pieces are about 3/8" thick x 1" wide, on which dimension did you do the scarf joint? If using 8:1 ratio one way requires a joint that is 8" long and the other way only requires 3" for the joint length.

Cheers

Brian

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#1567

From: "Roger L" <rogerlov@...>
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:55 pm
Subject: A scarfing jig and clamps

roger_scotty

No pictures of the old jig I'm afraid, today I use a Makita compound miter saw with tilt and angle. Probably the most-used tool in the shop.

But here's how I made it: Dimensions are all "whatever you have".

Take an almost one foot wide plank about 3 to 4 feet long and screw two 2x4s of the same length onto it. Put one along each side with their outer edge matching the outer edge of the plank. This makes a U-shaped tray with open ends and having 1 1/2" high sides. This tray what you clamp the stringer into, so the inner faces of the 2x4s should be straight.

Next take two pieces of your 3/8x3/4 material also the same 4 feet long and screw them flat down to the top of the 2x4s so that they are at a shallow angle to the long dimension of the tray. The actual angle doesn't matter because the scarfs you make on your own jig have to match each other. Somewhere around 10 to 15 degrees is good. I shot for 12 degrees. Space these stringers from each other far enough so that the foot of the circular saw can just fit between them and rest on the 2x4s. You may have to adjust the width of the 2x4s to accommodate your saw. My saw has a big foot, so all these spacings worked for it.

You now have an angled "runway" for the saw on top of the 2x4s.

The jig is almost ready.

Wax the runway and set the saw for 1 1/2" depth of cut and run it down the runway. Yes, it will cut most or all of the way through the 2x4s, so you may have to put some more wood on the bottom of the plank to keep the jig stiff enough.

Now you can clamp a stringer into the tray against one of the 2x4s and run the saw down the runway to cut a repeatable angle.

If the C clamps you use to clamp the stringer are so big that they interfere with path of the saw, use a hole saw or jig saw to cut some holes in the bottom of the plank and clamp the stringer by positioning the clamps from beneath. In that case, the jig won't sit flat on the workbench anymore, so it is laid across two saw horses. In fact, that is the only reason why the jig needs to be 4 feet long......so it can span the horses. Otherwise it could be shorter.

That's all there is too it. This jig will cut the same length of scarfs on your stringers regardless of which way that you are doing the scarf. You either clamp to the 2x4s or to the floor of the tray. I've done it both ways. Normally one wants to cut a scarf with the largest possible glue area because that way it is stronger and will bend more naturally. That means that to get nice limber scarfs they have to be cut the "hard" way...remembering that it really depends on which way you want to bend the stringer. On yours with this jig you would clamp the longer side of the scarfs against the side walls of the jig. When assembled and glued, you would see a vertical line running from edge to edge at right angle to the larger flat side of the stringer. Looking down at the 3/8" edge on the assembled stringer you would see the angle of the scarf running from side to side. Remember to use a couple of finish nails so that you can clamp the scarf well for gluing without it trying to slide. I also dampen the joint before gluing.

If scarfing the hard way is too difficult, try making some the other way. Really, once you make a few of them for practice and get the gluing down you'll probably find that for slight bends it doesn't matter which way it is scarfed.

How do you know if the joint is good? Well, just go ahead and break a few of them. A good scarf joint will be the strongest place on the stringer. The wood should break before the glue joint does. That's will make you trust them.

I knew a guy in California (Terminal Island, Ca., early 1970s) that re-built a fairly large vintage wooden fishing using short pieces of lumber - most of which he scavenged. That guy was a true scarfing master. BTW, the best glue clamps I know of are strips of inner tube half an inch wide and a few feet long. Hold one end with your thumb and wrap the first couple of wraps over it to hold it down and then just wrap the whole joint under rubber band tension. Tuck the final wrap under a previous one. This clamp will maintain pressure as the joint cures, and it removes easily.

Good Luck, Roger Loving

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Willan

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:09 AM

Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Boat length Measurement question

On 1/13/13 10:55 AM, Roger L wrote:

I used to be afraid of scarfing. What I did to fix that was to build a simple jig out of scrap wood so that I could clamp a stringer in the jig and run the circular saw against one side of the jig. Not knowing what was best, I made it for a 7:1 scarf. The result was a perfect scarf angle every time. No sanding required - just enough to break the glaze left by the saw - and the joint would always fit exactly. Then to test if it worked, I clamped and glued half a dozen scarfs up to make a single long stringer about 20 feet long.

( Be sure to lock the scarfs prior to gluing with a couple of finish nails or the joint will slide)

Figured I'd use the long stringer as a batten for drawing long smooth curves. Flexing it to draw curves would give a chance to see how it stood up to stress and whether the glue joints took the same bend as the were the same. To my surprise, it performed as though it was one piece of wood. It's still fine and been over 20 years now....and there are far better glues today. This one is stored across the rafters of my workshop.

Thanks for the tips there, Roger. Do you happen to have a picture of your scarfing jig that you could post? I've come to the conclusion that I will have to scarf all of the lengthwise pieces due to the length of the Arrow that I am going to build. For the gunwales, inwales and rub rails, the pieces are about 3/8" thick x 1" wide, on which dimension did you do the scarf joint? If using 8:1 ratio one way requires a joint that is 8" long and the other way only requires 3" for the joint length.

Cheers

Brian

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#1568

From: Brian Willan <bwillan@...>
Date: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:50 pm
Subject: Ballistic Nylon and heat shrinking

Greetings

I've checked through the older posts of this group and couldn't find an answer to this question. Does anyone know if the ballistic nylon that skinboats.org sells is heat shrinkable? I was thinking of using that instead of 2 layers of dacron due to its more durable and tear resistant nature. I am considering the 840 X-TRA Tuff Ballistic Nylon along with the 2 part urethane as well.

Thanks

Brian

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#1569

From: "millhavenguy" <drp122@...>
Date: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:16 pm
Subject: Re: Ballistic Nylon and heat shrinking

millhavenguy

Sorry, ballistic nylon is NOT heat shrinkable. Tough stuff though...........

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Brian Willan  wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> I've checked through the older posts of this group and couldn't find an
> answer to this question.  Does anyone know if the ballistic nylon that
> skinboats.org sells is heat shrinkable?  I was thinking of using that
> instead of 2 layers of dacron due to its more durable and tear resistant
> nature.  I am considering the 840 X-TRA Tuff Ballistic Nylon along with
> the 2 part urethane as well.
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#1570

From: Dennis O <dcolivarez@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:22 pm
Subject: Terrible Trip.......Please Help

unkledenn1s

I really hope you get this fast. I could not inform anyone about our trip, because it was impromptu. we had to be in Philippines for Tour.. The program was successful, but our journey has turned sour. we misplaced our wallet and cell phone on our way back to the hotel we lodge in after we went for sight seeing. The wallet contained all the valuables we had. Now, our passport is in custody of the hotel management pending when we make payment.

I am sorry if i am inconveniencing you, but i have only very few people to run to now. i will be indeed very grateful if i can get a short term loan from you(2,250USD). this will enable me sort our hotel bills and get my sorry self back home. I will really appreciate whatever you can afford in assisting me with. I promise to refund it in full as soon as soon as I return. let me know if you can be of any assistance. Please, let me know soonest. Thanks so much.

Dennis

#1571

From: Brian Willan <bwillan@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:26 pm
Subject: testing

Just a quick test.

I appears my last couple of replies to message in this group didn't get
posted.  Hopefully this works.

Cheers

Brian

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#1572

From: mike velasco <mpv270@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:59 pm
Subject: RE: Terrible Trip.......Please Help

mpv270@...

The only "Dennis O---" That I knew died of Liver failure about ten years ago. If Heaven is in the Philippines then it's not all that it is cracked up to be. Nice, yes. Wonderful, No.
I think we have been hacked. What do you think?

To:
From: dcolivarez@...
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 04:22:10 -0800
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Terrible Trip.......Please Help

Dennis

#1573

From: "Aaron Wood" <a_wood_@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: Terrible Trip.......Please Help

a_wood_...

For sure. More specifically, "Dennis" has had his email account hacked. If there's someone on this list named Dennis, change your email password! Although it may already be too late....

Cheers all,
Aaron

Sent from my BlackBerry

From: mike velasco <mpv270@...>

Sender: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:16 +0000

To: <airolite_boats@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [Airolite_Boats] Terrible Trip.......Please Help

To:
From: dcolivarez@...
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 04:22:10 -0800
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Terrible Trip.......Please Help

Dennis

#1574

From: Brian Willan <bwillan@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:08 pm
Subject: Re: Terrible Trip.......Please Help

Not hacked per say.� More like we got a spammer in the group.

On 1/18/13 3:59 PM, mike velasco wrote:

�

The only "Dennis O---" That I knew died of Liver failure about ten years ago. If Heaven is in the Philippines then it's not all that it is cracked up to be.� Nice, yes. Wonderful, No.
�I think we have been hacked. What do you think?

�

To:
From: dcolivarez@...
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 04:22:10 -0800
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Terrible Trip.......Please Help

�

I really hope you get this fast. I could not inform anyone about our trip, because it was impromptu. we had to be in Philippines for Tour..� The program was successful, but our journey has turned sour. we misplaced our wallet and cell phone on our way back to the hotel we lodge in after we went for sight seeing. The wallet contained all the valuables we had. Now, our passport is in custody of the hotel management pending when we make payment.

I am sorry if i am inconveniencing you, but i have only very few people to run to now. i will be indeed very grateful if i can get a short term loan�� from you(2,250USD). this will enable me sort our hotel bills and get my sorry self back home. I will really appreciate whatever you can afford in assisting me with. I promise to refund it in full as soon as soon as I return. let me know if you can be of any assistance. Please, let me know soonest. Thanks so much.

Dennis

#1575

From: "jccapwell" <jccapwell@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: Terrible Trip.......Please Help

jccapwell

According to FaceBook Dennis's last post was sometime in early Jan.  Hacked
again.

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Dennis O  wrote:
>
> I really hope you get this fast. I could not inform anyone about our trip,
because it was impromptu. we had to be in Philippines for Tour..� The program
was successful, but our journey has turned sour. we misplaced our wallet and
cell phone on our way back to the hotel we lodge in after we went for sight
seeing. The wallet contained all the valuables we had. Now, our passport is in
custody of the hotel management pending when we make payment.
>
> I am sorry if i am inconveniencing you, but i have only very few people to run
to now. i will be indeed very grateful if i can get a short term loan�� from
you(2,250USD). this will enable me sort our hotel bills and get my sorry self
back home. I will really appreciate whatever you can afford in assisting me
with. I promise to refund it in full as soon as soon as I return. let me know if
you can be of any assistance. Please, let me know soonest. Thanks so much.
>
> Dennis
>

#1576

From: Beau Schless <bschless@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: Terrible Trip.......Please Help

bschless

My bro in law was scammed by one of these. Totally hokey. Do not reply to them. Send it in to FBI.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:06 PM, "Aaron Wood" <a_wood_@...> wrote:

For sure. More specifically, "Dennis" has had his email account hacked. If there's someone on this list named Dennis, change your email password! Although it may already be too late....

Cheers all,
Aaron
Sent from my BlackBerry
From: mike velasco <mpv270@...>
Sender: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:16 +0000
To: <airolite_boats@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Airolite_Boats] Terrible Trip.......Please Help

The only "Dennis O---" That I knew died of Liver failure about ten years ago. If Heaven is in the Philippines then it's not all that it is cracked up to be. Nice, yes. Wonderful, No.
I think we have been hacked. What do you think?

To:
From: dcolivarez@...
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 04:22:10 -0800
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Terrible Trip.......Please Help

I really hope you get this fast. I could not inform anyone about our trip, because it was impromptu. we had to be in Philippines for Tour.. The program was successful, but our journey has turned sour. we misplaced our wallet and cell phone on our way back to the hotel we lodge in after we went for sight seeing. The wallet contained all the valuables we had. Now, our passport is in custody of the hotel management pending when we make payment.

I am sorry if i am inconveniencing you, but i have only very few people to run to now. i will be indeed very grateful if i can get a short term loan from you(2,250USD). this will enable me sort our hotel bills and get my sorry self back home. I will really appreciate whatever you can afford in assisting me with. I promise to refund it in full as soon as soon as I return. let me know if you can be of any assistance. Please, let me know soonest. Thanks so much.

Dennis

#1577

From: Patrick Bigand <patrick@...>
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:01 pm
Subject: RE: Terrible Trip.......Please Help

pbigand

I feel sorry for the poor homesick guy,  I can send him a Sweet Pea and a paddle

#1578

From: "george" <kf2oc@...>
Date: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:19 am
Subject: Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.

kf2oc

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Marianne Guidos  wrote:
>
> mrkfortney@...
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Roger L  wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > **
> > I drive an lightweight kevlar canoe. 38 lbs. Seats two, but really made
> > for one. Fast and unstable. We had several near flips and one day we turned
> > over in some fairly mild water just because we both turned our heads at the
> > same moment to look at a passing boat. So we added klunky outriggers. What
> > a difference! They weigh almost nothing, and the drag is negligible. After
> > all, only one is in the water at any time and it is just skimming.  If you
> > balance perfectly, neither outrigger needs to touch. All in all, the
> > tiny additional drag is more than offset by the fact that I can lean over
> > and really get the paddle in the water when I want to. Now it won't tip no
> > matter what. Assembly time is about a minute. And it is stable enough that
> > we are comfortable where things used to be dicey.
> >
> > An Airolite would be the perfect application. I love his designs, and
> > think the old boy would approve. After all, he was nothing if not
> > innovative.
> >
> > It would be easy to make them nicer. BTW, a canoe only needs one beam
> > piece. All the aluminum pieces are 7/8" diam. x 1/16" wall aluminum.
> > Probably tent poles. These outriggers are crap trap floats...2 per side,
> > back to back..
> > I'll post a picture labeled: "Outriggers".
> >    Luck,  Roger L.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Dennis O
> > *To:* Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:36 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Airolite_Boats] Seekimg a solo tub approach.
> >
> >   I have never built a complete watercraft of any sort but I have been
> > studying on this forum, books, magazines and other forums for years. If
> > stability is your concern you do not need to go to such complicated
> > lengths. The solution is simply a wider beam.
> >
> > It will be slightly slower but if age is an issue you are slightly slower
> > as well--I'm 62--I understand. I too have had aluminum canoes. Most
> > aluminum canoes get at least some of their stability from width not just
> > weight. Also, it is a matter of inches, some times as little as 4 inches.
> > Go back to the forum (where the real experts_I am not) and ask about
> > widening slightly one of the stock designs (for example 2" on either side
> > of the centerline).
> >
> > Widening would be much easier and less bulky than out riggers. A twin hull
> > design would be stable but you are doubling the drag. 2-4" of width at the
> > beam would gain the stability without the great increase in drag.
> >
> > One other note--chose something slightly longer because the stringers need
> > to twist from the center to the stems. Extra width will compound the twist.
> > spreading it over greater length will make it easier to build.
> >
> > Still, ask the real experts.
> >
> >
> > *Dennis *
> >
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 1/10/13, george * wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: george
> > Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Seekimg a solo tub approach.
> > To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 5:43 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > Just an aged newby to this group.  Had owned 15 and 17 foot standard
> > weight aluminum canoes for many decades and many uses.  Now need a much
> > lighter hull for use for nearby flat water fishing and flexible cartop to
> > drop-in uses.  Need 300 pound capacity, with modestly high seat (due to
> > reduced flexibility with aging).  Probably of quite modest length.
> >
> > Perhaps a stubby hull such as dinks use.  This to improve roll stability.
> > Due to reduced heading stability, am feeling the use of a double paddle may
> > be useful.  Have previously constructed oars with cupped blades, as a base
> > for producing such paddles.
> >
> > Had developed a prenchant for adjustable seating height from canoe
> > uses. The lower position for navigating, with the highter position used
> > after anchoring.  Height change could just be a temporarily added seat
> > riser, inserted when conditions permit or after anchoring.
> >
> > Had noted the Airolite style quite some years ago, but I am not very
> > familiar with current design ranges.  Has anyone considered using a dual
> > hulled, cat-style design to gain roll stability at minimal displacements?
> > Maybe this could use a form suited to a two-off construction approach for
> > the pair of hulls, with the wing between them providing the basic seating
> > position with just one foot positioned within each hull.
> >
> > Does anyone have comments, suggestions or a basis for related approaches?
> >
> > Many thanks, George.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

#1579

From: "george" <kf2oc@...>
Date: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:30 am
Subject: Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.

kf2oc

My apology for being AWOL. But if it is OK, I would like to continue with some
considerations of my " tub " ideas versus employing outriggers or a dual hull
(cat) approach.  Also responding to the posting of Dennis on this topic (in case
he has made it back).

Just adding beam has an appealing design simplicity. Had the idea of reducing
the length in seeking to stabilize the total weight for that approach, thus the
"tub".  That may weakly dovetail with my preference for transporting by cartop.

The CAT approach could have some advantage for portage because the 'wing' as the
principle connection between the hulls could also serve as a carrying yoke as
well as acting as a seat when on the water.  And this may have good right and
left side balance for good overhead carrying convenience.

Some of my thinking about CAT hulls comes from a Florida design that appeared
many years ago. For construction it used solid 4 inch thick sheets of glued foam
insulation to achieve rather light weight.  The top deck was totally flat, which
seemed pretty clumsey from several aspects.

Righting-moment versus hull shapes (and hull spacing for a CAT)is a pretty rich
subject.  It is easy to cite CAT sailing hulls or rowing CATS to indicate their
drag is not a problem. That is too simple, and may not transfer to short hulls.
Even so, it is just my feeling this is not a limitation for my short trips on
flat water. Other applications may be differ.

Stringer bending limitations may have other solutions at this small scale. 
Earlier I had considered using bulkheads of plastic foam insulation sheets
covered with aluminum sheet. Some bulkhead shapes were derived and prototypes
constructed.  They can provide good support for the stringers, and offer an
approach that limits the needed bending. The stringers may converge at the bow
bulkhead but that bulkhead may be given added depth by adding another layer of
insulation sheet that permits rounding for the bow nose (so the stringers need
not fully converge).

In that context the question of bulkhead shape can be reconsidered. In the
context of heat shrinked sheeting over the stringers, if could be that adopting
a 'hard chine' could be useful in stabilizing the steering of a short hull while
also flattening the region of the relatively narrow floor area.  Floor
reinforcement would be applied in the area of the cockpit to support the
pressure of the paddlers feet (or maybe even a standing fisherman in calm
water).

The cited experience with the 'Outriggers' is stimulating and encouraging. Their
separation for transporting by car or by hand may not be so neat, and ditto for
their assembly.  But they seem most instructional about the possible stability
and water drag aspects.

Have there been any guides or modeling rules that supported the bending limits
that Platt used in his design approaches ??  Ditto for the lateral trussing and
stringer spacings supported in his designs ??

It is good to see winter settling in, so now we can dream-up our next project
and catch-up on some paperwork.  Ha.  Overall omments please.

Cheers, George.

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "george"  wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Marianne Guidos  wrote:
> >
> > mrkfortney@
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Roger L  wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > **
> > > I drive an lightweight kevlar canoe. 38 lbs. Seats two, but really made
> > > for one. Fast and unstable. We had several near flips and one day we
turned
> > > over in some fairly mild water just because we both turned our heads at
the
> > > same moment to look at a passing boat. So we added klunky outriggers. What
> > > a difference! They weigh almost nothing, and the drag is negligible. After
> > > all, only one is in the water at any time and it is just skimming.  If you
> > > balance perfectly, neither outrigger needs to touch. All in all, the
> > > tiny additional drag is more than offset by the fact that I can lean over
> > > and really get the paddle in the water when I want to. Now it won't tip no
> > > matter what. Assembly time is about a minute. And it is stable enough that
> > > we are comfortable where things used to be dicey.
> > >
> > > An Airolite would be the perfect application. I love his designs, and
> > > think the old boy would approve. After all, he was nothing if not
> > > innovative.
> > >
> > > It would be easy to make them nicer. BTW, a canoe only needs one beam
> > > piece. All the aluminum pieces are 7/8" diam. x 1/16" wall aluminum.
> > > Probably tent poles. These outriggers are crap trap floats...2 per side,
> > > back to back..
> > > I'll post a picture labeled: "Outriggers".
> > >    Luck,  Roger L.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > *From:* Dennis O
> > > *To:* Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:36 PM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Airolite_Boats] Seekimg a solo tub approach.
> > >
> > >   I have never built a complete watercraft of any sort but I have been
> > > studying on this forum, books, magazines and other forums for years. If
> > > stability is your concern you do not need to go to such complicated
> > > lengths. The solution is simply a wider beam.
> > >
> > > It will be slightly slower but if age is an issue you are slightly slower
> > > as well--I'm 62--I understand. I too have had aluminum canoes. Most
> > > aluminum canoes get at least some of their stability from width not just
> > > weight. Also, it is a matter of inches, some times as little as 4 inches.
> > > Go back to the forum (where the real experts_I am not) and ask about
> > > widening slightly one of the stock designs (for example 2" on either side
> > > of the centerline).
> > >
> > > Widening would be much easier and less bulky than out riggers. A twin hull
> > > design would be stable but you are doubling the drag. 2-4" of width at the
> > > beam would gain the stability without the great increase in drag.
> > >
> > > One other note--chose something slightly longer because the stringers need
> > > to twist from the center to the stems. Extra width will compound the
twist.
> > > spreading it over greater length will make it easier to build.
> > >
> > > Still, ask the real experts.
> > >
> > >
> > > *Dennis *
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On *Thu, 1/10/13, george * wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: george
> > > Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Seekimg a solo tub approach.
> > > To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 5:43 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just an aged newby to this group.  Had owned 15 and 17 foot standard
> > > weight aluminum canoes for many decades and many uses.  Now need a much
> > > lighter hull for use for nearby flat water fishing and flexible cartop to
> > > drop-in uses.  Need 300 pound capacity, with modestly high seat (due to
> > > reduced flexibility with aging).  Probably of quite modest length.
> > >
> > > Perhaps a stubby hull such as dinks use.  This to improve roll stability.
> > > Due to reduced heading stability, am feeling the use of a double paddle
may
> > > be useful.  Have previously constructed oars with cupped blades, as a base
> > > for producing such paddles.
> > >
> > > Had developed a prenchant for adjustable seating height from canoe
> > > uses. The lower position for navigating, with the highter position used
> > > after anchoring.  Height change could just be a temporarily added seat
> > > riser, inserted when conditions permit or after anchoring.
> > >
> > > Had noted the Airolite style quite some years ago, but I am not very
> > > familiar with current design ranges.  Has anyone considered using a dual
> > > hulled, cat-style design to gain roll stability at minimal displacements?
> > > Maybe this could use a form suited to a two-off construction approach for
> > > the pair of hulls, with the wing between them providing the basic seating
> > > position with just one foot positioned within each hull.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have comments, suggestions or a basis for related approaches?
> > >
> > > Many thanks, George.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

#1580

From: "Caruk, Gord" <gord.caruk@...>
Date: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.

gord_t3

Hi George.

In your first post on this topic back in Dec it sounded like you were wondering if Platt's method's could be used for the boat you're considering. My answer is yes. That method will work for other boats, and not just for the plans that are available from him. Here’s an outrigger canoe that I built a couple years ago. The boat was built using Platt’s methods from measurements in tables in Gary Dierking’s book http://www.amazon.ca/Building-Outrigger-Sailing-Canoes-Construction/dp/0071487913/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359059790&sr=8-2 This looks somewhat like where you’re headed.

Gord

1 of 1 Photo(s)

P1010499_small.JPG

#1581

From: Lawrence H Pinto <larry-pinto@...>
Date: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:01 am
Subject: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

larrymrh

Hi Everybody,

It's winter here in Chicago but I see water when I look at the ice lining Lake
Michigan and think of spring!

I have a 58 pound, 16 ft kayak of an excellent, stable design that is just my
size. I'd like to make a kayak that is lots lighter and have made a 16 ft
airolite canoe.

Does anyone know of plans for an airolite kayak about 16 ft long?

Can I just make measurements from my existing kayak, cut templates and go for
it?

Thanks,

Larry

#1582

From: anton berteaux <junkmailsupreme@...>
Date: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:22 am
Subject: Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

superwonton...

Ha! Do it, I'll give you $20 for the plans!

Anton

On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Lawrence H Pinto wrote:

Hi Everybody,

It's winter here in Chicago but I see water when I look at the ice lining Lake Michigan and think of spring!

I have a 58 pound, 16 ft kayak of an excellent, stable design that is just my size. I'd like to make a kayak that is lots lighter and have made a 16 ft airolite canoe.

Does anyone know of plans for an airolite kayak about 16 ft long?

Can I just make measurements from my existing kayak, cut templates and go for it?

Thanks,

Larry

Note: my new email is anton@...
All others are supserseded, and will probably be void in a few months.

#1583

From: Brian Willan <bwillan@...>
Date: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:08 am
Subject: Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

Greetings Lawrence

The Rob Roy is the only full kayak model that is on the gaboats.com website. However it is a 14' design. I am building an Arrow model come the spring and I will be stretching it out to 16' to give me the weight capacity I require. I did think of making a couple of spray skirts for my Arrow to give a kayak like amount of dry storage. I will have to wait and see how well it works as it.

There are may other sites on the web that specialize in SOF kayaks so you could check around for plans and see what you find.

Cheers

Brian

On 1/24/13 8:01 PM, Lawrence H Pinto wrote:

Hi Everybody,

It's winter here in Chicago but I see water when I look at the ice lining Lake Michigan and think of spring!

I have a 58 pound, 16 ft kayak of an excellent, stable design that is just my size. I'd like to make a kayak that is lots lighter and have made a 16 ft airolite canoe.

Does anyone know of plans for an airolite kayak about 16 ft long?

Can I just make measurements from my existing kayak, cut templates and go for it?

Thanks,

Larry

#1584

From: "trentm" <trentmorr@...>
Date: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:11 am
Subject: Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

trentmorr

Yostwerks.com has some free plans (offsets) for lightweight sof kayaks that
might fit your bill.   Horrible site for navigating but you can't beat the price
--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Brian Willan  wrote:
>
> Greetings Lawrence
>
> The Rob Roy is the only full kayak model that is on the gaboats.com
> website.  However it is a 14' design.  I am building an Arrow model come
> the spring and I will be stretching it out to 16' to give me the weight
> capacity I require.  I did think of making a couple of spray skirts for
> my Arrow to give a kayak like amount of dry storage.  I will have to
> wait and see how well it works as it.
>
> There are may other sites on the web that specialize in SOF kayaks so
> you could check around for plans and see what you find.
>
> Cheers
>
> Brian
>
> On 1/24/13 8:01 PM, Lawrence H Pinto wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everybody,
> >
> > It's winter here in Chicago but I see water when I look at the ice
> > lining Lake Michigan and think of spring!
> >
> > I have a 58 pound, 16 ft kayak of an excellent, stable design that is
> > just my size. I'd like to make a kayak that is lots lighter and have
> > made a 16 ft airolite canoe.
> >
> > Does anyone know of plans for an airolite kayak about 16 ft long?
> >
> > Can I just make measurements from my existing kayak, cut templates and
> > go for it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
>

#1585

From: John Capwell <jccapwell@...>
Date: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

jccapwell

Larry
I am glad you are looking into building a canoe.  I will caution you on just
going out and grabbing a set of plans and building a kayak.  I have built canoes
and kayaks over the years, more years than I will admit in social situations.

My suggestion, decide where you do most of your paddling and what the length of
you paddling trips will be.  Streams, lakes, moving water,surf, ocean,  day
trips, multi-day trips, fishing, etc. all are different with different hull
needs.  After that decision study the hulls that are in production and then look
for plans that are similar.  Beware of something listed as free since it may be
exactly worth what you pay for it.

The airolite construction methods lend themselves to creating virtually any hull
that will meet your needs.  Enjoy. I wish you the best.

John

Sent from my iPad

#1586

From: "Casey" <sterbejj@...>
Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:40 am
Subject: Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

sterbejj

Larry,

If you are happy with the kayak you have, why not take measurements from that
craft, draw up your own plans, and make an Airolite copy of it?  That way you
would have a kayak with basically the same characteristics as the one you now
have.

Casey Sterbenz

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence H Pinto  wrote:
>
> Hi Everybody,
>
> It's winter here in Chicago but I see water when I look at the ice lining Lake
Michigan and think of spring!
>
> I have a 58 pound, 16 ft kayak of an excellent, stable design that is just my
size. I'd like to make a kayak that is lots lighter and have made a 16 ft
airolite canoe.
>
> Does anyone know of plans for an airolite kayak about 16 ft long?
>
> Can I just make measurements from my existing kayak, cut templates and go for
it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>

#1587

From: "rueffingkidding" <rueffingkidding@...>
Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:44 pm
Subject: Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

rueffingkidding

Larry,

Here is a short list of alternative resources about building skin-on-frame
boats. All of these include information on kayaks (provided that your definition
includes baidarkas). While the construction methods differ from Platt's (range
from crude to very high tech) I don't see why most of the boats featured
couldn't be adapted to the GA method fairly easily):

-Building Skin-On-Frame Boats by Robert Morris  ISBN 0-88179-191-1
-The Aleution Kayak by Wolfgang Brink  ISBN 0-07-007893-9
-Baidarka by George Dyson  ISBN 0-88240-315-X

On the interweb, there is Brian Shultz' Cape Falcon Kayak site:
http://www.capefalconkayak.com/

I have found Shultz to be a bit dismissive about ideas other than his own (NIH
syndrome), but he is a knowledgeable resource and has built a lot of boats.

-Roland

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence H Pinto  wrote:
>
> Hi Everybody,
>
> It's winter here in Chicago but I see water when I look at the ice lining Lake
Michigan and think of spring!
>
> I have a 58 pound, 16 ft kayak of an excellent, stable design that is just my
size. I'd like to make a kayak that is lots lighter and have made a 16 ft
airolite canoe.
>
> Does anyone know of plans for an airolite kayak about 16 ft long?
>
> Can I just make measurements from my existing kayak, cut templates and go for
it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>

#1588

From: Richard Bertram <richardbertram@...>
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style

richardbertram

Larry, I think the information on the Cape Falcon Kayak site is excellent. He even gives you the plan for one of his popular kayaks. As I looked over his site, I was struck by how generous he was with his knowledge and what a fine craftsman he is. I also became aware of how refined some of his techniques,materials and the crafts he has made. I have for years coveted his classes and have seriously considered taking one. One could learn a lot from Brian.

Richard

--- On Sat, 1/26/13, rueffingkidding <rueffingkidding@...> wrote:

From: rueffingkidding <rueffingkidding@...>
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: seeking plans for a kayak airolite style
To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 26, 2013, 4:44 AM

Larry,

Here is a short list of alternative resources about building skin-on-frame boats. All of these include information on kayaks (provided that your definition includes baidarkas). While the construction methods differ from Platt's (range from crude to very high tech) I don't see why most of the boats featured couldn't be adapted to the GA method fairly easily):

-Building Skin-On-Frame Boats by Robert Morris ISBN 0-88179-191-1
-The Aleution Kayak by Wolfgang Brink ISBN 0-07-007893-9
-Baidarka by George Dyson ISBN 0-88240-315-X

On the interweb, there is Brian Shultz' Cape Falcon Kayak site:
http://www.capefalconkayak.com/

I have found Shultz to be a bit dismissive about ideas other than his own (NIH syndrome), but he is a knowledgeable resource and has built a lot of boats.

-Roland

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence H Pinto wrote:
>
> Hi Everybody,
>
> It's winter here in Chicago but I see water when I look at the ice lining Lake Michigan and think of spring!
>
> I have a 58 pound, 16 ft kayak of an excellent, stable design that is just my size. I'd like to make a kayak that is lots lighter and have made a 16 ft airolite canoe.
>
> Does anyone know of plans for an airolite kayak about 16 ft long?
>
> Can I just make measurements from my existing kayak, cut templates and go for it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>

#1589

From: Richard Bertram <richardbertram@...>
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:09 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach. [1 Attachment]

richardbertram

From: Caruk, Gord <gord.caruk@...>
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach. [1 Attachment]
To: "Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com" <Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 12:40 PM

Hi George.

In your first post on this topic back in Dec it sounded like you were wondering if Platt's method's could be used for the boat you're considering. My answer is yes. That method will work for other boats, and not just for the plans that are available from him. Here’s an outrigger canoe that I built a couple years ago. The boat was built using Platt’s methods from measurements in tables in Gary Dierking’s book http://www.amazon.ca/Building-Outrigger-Sailing-Canoes-Construction/dp/0071487913/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359059790&sr=8-2 This looks somewhat like where you’re headed.

Gord

#1590

From: "pleach@..." <pleach@...>
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:41 pm
Subject: Classic 12

pleach...

I recently completed the classic 12 and showed the boat at the Port Townsend
Wooden Boat Show - Built a pair of oak/sapele spoon bladed oars , too heavy !
Will refine to take 2-3 lbs. out of each oar and see how the swing weight is
with that adjustment - Now completing the sail rig and stitching the sail - Rows
very well for one and in retrospect wish I had added one more station to make
the boat 14' for a longer waterline and carrying capacity /balance with a
passenger -
Will show photos but don't see how to do that on this post - Please advise on
how to include photos -
Peter

Reply | Messages in this Topic (15)

#1591

From: bschless@...
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.

bschless

An outrigger on a class ic 10? Think I could oyster off it???
Beau Schless
NOTEbookS Library Automation
TEL: 978. 443.2996
CELL: 978.501.0574
http://www.rasco.com

From: Richard Bertram <richardbertram@...>
To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
Date: 01/27/2013 01:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.
Sent by: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Hi George, I made a Classic 10' and was planning on using it for crabbing. Once I got it made realized it was a little to tippy for that. Perhaps an outrigger would solve the problem. You have inspired me.

Richard

--- On Thu, 1/24/13, Caruk, Gord <gord.caruk@...> wrote:

From: Caruk, Gord <gord.caruk@...>
Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach. [1 Attachment]
To: "Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com" <Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 12:40 PM

Hi George.

Gord

#1592

From: Peter Leach <pleach@...>
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Classic 12

pleach...