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#6091 From: "ironjpa" <ironjpa@...>
Date: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:21 pm
Subject: Help with mask
ironjpa
Send Email Send Email
 
I have another mask that i am having trouble categorizing. Can any one point me
in the right direction?

Thanks. Joe

Photos at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1309106302/pic/list

#6092 From: * John Fagalde <john_fagalde@...>
Date: Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:46 am
Subject: Re: unknown figure?
john_fagalde
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Joe,

Yes, probably Bassa?, Dan? from Liberia.

Best wishes,

John

#6093 From: "Monroe, John W [HIST]" <jmonroe@...>
Date: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:44 pm
Subject: RE: Help with mask
jwmonroe29
Send Email Send Email
 
It looks to me like a mash-up of Nigerian and Ivoirian styles.  The eyes and overall shape are reminiscent of Ogoni masks, the under-eye scarification is typical of the Igbo, and you see that figure-eight mouth a lot on recent tourist pieces in Baule or Guro style.  As for where it comes from, it's hard to know.  My first guess would be a workshop in Cameroon. 

John Monroe


From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [African_Arts@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of ironjpa [ironjpa@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:21 AM
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [African_Arts] Help with mask

 

I have another mask that i am having trouble categorizing. Can any one point me in the right direction?

Thanks. Joe

Photos at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1309106302/pic/list


#6094 From: "stephen.ellmann" <Stephen.Ellmann@...>
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:21 pm
Subject: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
stephen.ellmann
Send Email Send Email
 
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on
"African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting
exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part
of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent
discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that
certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as
collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of
signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of
styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art
rather than as old pieces "for the trade."

Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called
"pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each
about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know
that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in.
The folder's URL is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1897775608/pic/654677077\
/view

Thanks!

Steve Ellmann

#6095 From: Ed Jones <bucit@...>
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
bucit
Send Email Send Email
 
"Market art", or art exported to Europe and western regions has been carved in Gabon, through-out the Congo and various other African countries since the 18th C.
There is a major difference between pieces which were intended relics, and market carved exports.  Authenticy is a word as subjective as ones preferred choice of syle or color, and also varies with ones degree of "expertise", and one cannot dismiss era and evolution (although, some believe Africa has no right to evolve, and want to keep it in the primitive category). 
 
Forget about all the buzz around athenticity... E.G:  Are Calvin Klein shirts authentic these days, or Chinese copies?  Hmmn.
 
It is highly questionable if most would recognize a true relic, let alone be able to determine its use (initiation, entertainment, invoke fear or retore social order, etc.).
 
Meanwhile, your masks appear to be "newer", market productions with vivid polychrome paint -- perhaps, Bozo or the NW region.  But, then again, they could have been carved any number of places :))
 
Ed
 
From: stephen.ellmann <Stephen.Ellmann@...>
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:21 AM
Subject: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
 
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on "African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces "for the trade."

Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called "pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in. The folder's URL is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1897775608/pic/654677077/view

Thanks!

Steve Ellmann

#6096 From: Beth Peart <beepeawee1@...>
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:30 pm
Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
beepeawee1...
Send Email Send Email
 
The unidentified masks you've posted look like ones I have seen with S Asian Origins.
 







ONÍSÙÚRÙ NI YÍÒ JOGÚN AYÉ
The patient person shall inherit the earth


From: stephen.ellmann <Stephen.Ellmann@...>
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:21:55 PM
Subject: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks

 
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on "African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces "for the trade."

Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called "pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in. The folder's URL is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1897775608/pic/654677077/view

Thanks!

Steve Ellmann



#6097 From: Jeff Spurr <jbspurr@...>
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:29 pm
Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
kalimantan3
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Steve et al,

I have not had an opportunity to see the Met exhibit, although I hope to.  Your comment prompts a couple thoughts.  Ninety years ago many local artistic traditions were still fully viable.  Thus an object not only made traditionally but intended for traditional purposes could still be collected before it had developed any or much patina of use.  How are we to know?  Not very likely that we can.  Of course colon figures were already being produced by then, and yet they are collected.  Centuries before the Afro-Portuguese ivories were being produced for sale, but are considered masterpieces of African art, not objects of dubious status.  Time and quality work wonders.

On the other hand, back in the late 1980s, a friend of mine who was an antiques dealer told me that the municipal library of Manchester New Hampshire had been given a collection of African art from a local estate with the notion that they could derive some income from its sale.  He invited me along to assess the prospects of his making any money were he to acquire it (it being offered only as a whole).  What made this attractive:  everything had been acquired during one trip to West and Central African in 1917.  Needless to say, visions of sugar plums were dancing in my head as we raced northwards from Boston.  What we found was more like a pile of coals.  I was surprised and chagrined to discover that a whole host of tourist tchotchkes were already available to the unwary tourist way back then.  Nothing at all like traditional sculpture made for sale, mind you, but novelties clearly aimed at this new market.  There was also a large stack of elephant tusks, not subjected to any sort of cultural intervention.  The only things of genuine interest and clearly made for traditional use were some wonderful textiles from Sierra Leone and Liberia, plus a fine carved Kuba horn.  There were a few Kuba textiles, but none of aesthetic interest.  The whole was not worth the amount demanded, so, disappointed, we went our way.  Still, it provided some insights into the scene before the development of "airport" art as we know it.

Best,

Jeff


Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:21:55 -0000
Subject: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified
 masks

 
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on "African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces "for the trade."

Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called "pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in. The folder's URL is:


#6098 From: Herbert Moore <hmoore@...>
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:13 am
Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
herb9154
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Ed, Thought I'd drop in and see what's new with my old pals in the African art group and, low and behold, the first post I read is from you, pontificating about "authenticity." Seems to me that your opinions on this subject vary with the weather.

One thing you said that, I suspect, is absolutely correct; I'm quite sure you are an expert on "Bozo."

I noticed a couple months ago that Jacques spanked you when you challenged the authenticity of his artifacts, but, of course, he is too much of a gentleman to do so with any style.

I'll check back again in a couple more months......

Herb



On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Ed Jones bucit@...> wrote:

"Market art", or art exported to Europe and western regions has been carved in Gabon, through-out the Congo and various other African countries since the 18th C.
There is a major difference between pieces which were intended relics, and market carved exports. Authenticy is a word as subjective as ones preferred choice of syle or color, andalso varies with ones degree of "expertise", and one cannot dismiss era and evolution (although, some believe Africa has no right to evolve, and want to keep it in the primitive category).
Forget about all the buzz around athenticity... E.G: Are Calvin Klein shirts authentic these days, or Chinese copies? Hmmn.
It is highly questionable if most would recognize a true relic, let alone be able to determine its use (initiation, entertainment, invoke fear or retore social order, etc.).
Meanwhile, your masks appear to be "newer", market productions with vivid polychrome paint -- perhaps, Bozo or the NW region. But, then again, they could have been carved any number of places :))
Ed
From: stephen.ellmann Stephen.Ellmann@...>
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:21 AM
Subject: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on "African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces "for the trade."

Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called "pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in. The folder's URL is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1897775608/pic/654677077/view

Thanks!

Steve Ellmann






#6099 From: Ed Jones <bucit@...>
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:27 am
Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
bucit
Send Email Send Email
 
Welcome back Herb,
Recomendation: This time, (aswith any other), read and comprehend the posts carefully and not with cajolery or anything else.
You could not be more INCORRECT about your assessement ofJacques writings. Fact:He has emailed me privately several times past about my opinions concerning authenticy --- relevant to Nkisi.
Your truths remain omnious, and you are off way off topic. Stick around though, you just might eventually learn something.
Ed
From: Herbert Moore
To: Ed Jones
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
Hi Ed, Thought I'd drop in and see what's new with my old pals in the African art group and, low and behold, the first post I read is from you, pontificating about "authenticity." Seems to me that your opinions on this subject vary with the weather.

One thing you said that, I suspect, is absolutely correct; I'm quite sure you are an expert on "Bozo."

I noticed a couple months ago that Jacques spanked you when you challenged the authenticity of his artifacts, but, of course, he is too much of a gentleman to do so with any style.

I'll check back again in a couple more months......

Herb



On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Ed Jones bucit@...> wrote:
"Market art", or art exported to Europe and western regions has been carved in Gabon, through-out the Congo and various other African countries since the 18th C.
There is a major difference between pieces which were intended relics, and market carved exports. Authenticy is a word as subjective as ones preferred choice of syle or color, andalso varies with ones degree of "expertise", and one cannot dismiss era and evolution (although, some believe Africa has no right to evolve, and want to keep it in the primitive category).
Forget about all the buzz around athenticity... E.G: Are Calvin Klein shirts authentic these days, or Chinese copies? Hmmn.
It is highly questionable if most would recognize a true relic, let alone be able to determine its use (initiation, entertainment, invoke fear or retore social order, etc.).
Meanwhile, your masks appear to be "newer", market productions with vivid polychrome paint -- perhaps, Bozo or the NW region. But, then again, they could have been carved any number of places :))
Ed
From: stephen.ellmann Stephen.Ellmann@...>
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:21 AM
Subject: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on "African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces "for the trade." Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called "pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in. The folder's URL is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1897775608/pic/654677077/view Thanks! Steve Ellmann

#6100 From: "lucasanart" <lucasanart@...>
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:51 am
Subject: Can you give me information about this sculpture?
lucasanart
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all,

Can you give me information about this sculpture?

I recently acquired this sculpture Mumuye of 1.15 meters.
It seems like a rare sculpture because it has a mask.

Do you know what is called the mask and dance for ritual or used?

What do you think of this sculpture?

I appreciate that would tell me all the information you can about this
sculpture.

The photos you see on this link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1370437052/pic/list

Thank you very much.

Best regards to all,
Ruben

#6101 From: "dleidie" <dleidie@...>
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Subject: Baga Nimba Guinea shoulder mask
dleidie
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,
i have a shoulder mask , and i would like to know if it is made for tourists or
not.
I googled for these shoulder masks, and i only found masks wich  in wood (
brown) colour.
Mine is painted black, and his hair are white and red, and it has red eyes.
It measures ca. 60 cms.
Can someone tell me something about it ?
Thank you for reading !

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/2066959297/pic/list

#6102 From: "Monroe, John W [HIST]" <jmonroe@...>
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:35 pm
Subject: RE: Baga Nimba Guinea shoulder mask
jwmonroe29
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi --

Your mask was probably made for tourists.  The examples made for in-culture use are much more finely made.  Also, it's too small to function as a shoulder mask, which is what pieces in this form were intended to do.  The Baga do use enamel paint on their more recent sculptures.  I've seen polychrome elements on older examples, but never enamel paint.  The D'mba shoulder mask stopped being used in the 1950s, as Muslim influence among the Baga grew, but recently they've begun dancing it again. 

Fortunately, the Baga have been the subject of what in my opinion is one of the best art-ethnographies out there, Frederick Lamp's "Art of the Baga."  It's an excellent place to start getting a fuller picture of Baga art and culture, which is fascinating and intriguingly diverse.  If you compare your piece to the shoulder masks illustrated in the book, you'll get a clearer sense of what makes it identifiable as a copy.

best,

John Monroe
 

From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [African_Arts@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of dleidie [dleidie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:46 AM
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [African_Arts] Baga Nimba Guinea shoulder mask

 

Hello,
i have a shoulder mask , and i would like to know if it is made for tourists or not.
I googled for these shoulder masks, and i only found masks wich in wood ( brown) colour.
Mine is painted black, and his hair are white and red, and it has red eyes.
It measures ca. 60 cms.
Can someone tell me something about it ?
Thank you for reading !

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/2066959297/pic/list


#6103 From: Mon Bakota <monbakota@...>
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:06 pm
Subject: Re : Can you give me information about this sculpture?
monbakota
Send Email Send Email
 
Your Mumuye seems like Chamba statue.

the face is chamba but the rest of the body is mumuye.

MArtine

--- En date de : Mar 15.1.13, lucasanart <lucasanart@...> a crit :

De: lucasanart <lucasanart@...>
Objet: [African_Arts] Can you give me information about this sculpture?
: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mardi 15 janvier 2013, 10h51

Hi all,

Can you give me information about this sculpture?

I recently acquired this sculpture Mumuye of 1.15 meters.
It seems like a rare sculpture because it has a mask.

Do you know what is called the mask and dance for ritual or used?

What do you think of this sculpture?

I appreciate that would tell me all the information you can about this sculpture.

The photos you see on this link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1370437052/pic/list

Thank you very much.

Best regards to all,
Ruben



------------------------------------

African Arts and Culture Discussion Group

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#6104 From: Mon Bakota <monbakota@...>
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:51 pm
Subject: Re : Baga Nimba Guinea shoulder mask
monbakota
Send Email Send Email
 
Your Baga mask is recent and made only for the tourist.

If you agree I can send you the picture of and original baga mask wich is already use for traditional ceremony. 

Martine


--- En date de : Mar 15.1.13, dleidie <dleidie@...> a crit :

De: dleidie <dleidie@...>
Objet: [African_Arts] Baga Nimba Guinea shoulder mask
: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mardi 15 janvier 2013, 14h46

Hello,
i have a shoulder mask , and i would like to know if it is made for tourists or not.
I googled for these shoulder masks, and i only found masks wich  in wood ( brown) colour.
Mine is painted black, and his hair are white and red, and it has red eyes.
It measures ca. 60 cms.
Can someone tell me something about it ?
Thank you for reading !

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/2066959297/pic/list


------------------------------------

African Arts and Culture Discussion Group

*Website for the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/

*Photos folder for the group: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos

*Message archives for the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/messages
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/

<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
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<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    African_Arts-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


#6105 From: "Monroe, John W [HIST]" <jmonroe@...>
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:08 pm
Subject: RE: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
jwmonroe29
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Group --

These are very interesting messages.  As a historian of material culture, I've got to say that it's too bad the collection Jeff describes got disbursed -- it would be a valuable (and rare) document of the state of the African market at the time, though still probably not worth much money.  Tourist art has an art history of its own, but is basically "invisible," because it has always been considered unworthy of documentation.  While this situation can appear to have a self-evident aesthetic justification, I still think it's a shame, given how important the production of these objects has been and continues to be in many places in Africa.  Sometimes, also, there are examples of "tourist work" that nevertheless attain what we, as Western connoisseurs, would consider to be museum-worthy aesthetic distinction: for instance, the work of Thomas Ona, Osei Bonsu or Mutisya Munge.

Interestingly, objects from the Congo were really the first African sculptures to show up on the US market -- unlike the French situation, where the first objects were from Gabon, Cote d'Ivoire, Mali, etc.  Yaelle Biro, the curator of the show at the Met, has some interesting things to say about that in the special issue of Tribal Art magazine published to accompany the show: http://www.tribalartmagazine.com/en/musees/metropolitan_museum_of_art.html

When I spoke with her about the exhibit, by the way, she noted that her decision to include the various "inauthentic" objects was a conscious choice to go against common art museum practice.  Normally, the inconvenient "missteps" of early connoisseurs are edited out, and the focus gets shifted to canonical objects that are still considered "masterworks" -- reinforcing a sense that those early dealers had uniquely good "eyes."  In fact, the reality was much more complicated, and the quality much more variable -- an impression this show seeks to convey.  Even Paul Guillaume bought and sold some "duds." 

At that point, people hadn't really seen much African art in the first place, and what struck them as appealing is not necessarily what connoisseurs today have taught themselves to appreciate.  Think, for instance, of the black Baule mask in Man Ray's famous picture "Noire et Blanche."  It's *obviously* "fake," and yet it struck Man Ray as worthy material for incorporation into his iconic image.  Since then, by the way, the mask has gotten lost, probably because on its own, judged according to current norms of connoisseurship, it's "nothing special."

Steve, though, isn't quite correct when he suggests that "Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces 'for the trade.'"  Actually, they are still worth *much less* than the objects deemed "authentic," and are considered to have value only as historical documents, rather than as valid works of art in themselves.  In general, they are objects that the art historical world has lost track of over the years, and that Biro has turned up thanks to some pretty astounding detective work.

John Monroe






From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [African_Arts@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Jeff Spurr [jbspurr@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:29 PM
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks

 

Dear Steve et al,

I have not had an opportunity to see the Met exhibit, although I hope to.  Your comment prompts a couple thoughts.  Ninety years ago many local artistic traditions were still fully viable.  Thus an object not only made traditionally but intended for traditional purposes could still be collected before it had developed any or much patina of use.  How are we to know?  Not very likely that we can.  Of course colon figures were already being produced by then, and yet they are collected.  Centuries before the Afro-Portuguese ivories were being produced for sale, but are considered masterpieces of African art, not objects of dubious status.  Time and quality work wonders.

On the other hand, back in the late 1980s, a friend of mine who was an antiques dealer told me that the municipal library of Manchester New Hampshire had been given a collection of African art from a local estate with the notion that they could derive some income from its sale.  He invited me along to assess the prospects of his making any money were he to acquire it (it being offered only as a whole).  What made this attractive:  everything had been acquired during one trip to West and Central African in 1917.  Needless to say, visions of sugar plums were dancing in my head as we raced northwards from Boston.  What we found was more like a pile of coals.  I was surprised and chagrined to discover that a whole host of tourist tchotchkes were already available to the unwary tourist way back then.  Nothing at all like traditional sculpture made for sale, mind you, but novelties clearly aimed at this new market.  There was also a large stack of elephant tusks, not subjected to any sort of cultural intervention.  The only things of genuine interest and clearly made for traditional use were some wonderful textiles from Sierra Leone and Liberia, plus a fine carved Kuba horn.  There were a few Kuba textiles, but none of aesthetic interest.  The whole was not worth the amount demanded, so, disappointed, we went our way.  Still, it provided some insights into the scene before the development of "airport" art as we know it.

Best,

Jeff


Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:21:55 -0000
Subject: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified
 masks

 
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on "African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces "for the trade."

Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called "pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in. The folder's URL is:


#6106 From: "Monroe, John W [HIST]" <jmonroe@...>
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:21 pm
Subject: An article of possible interest
jwmonroe29
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello Everyone --

Since the time-honored "authenticity discussion" seems to have resurfaced, as it inevitably does here from time to time, I thought you all might be interested in an article I've recently published on the topic.  A copy of the text is available here: http://ahr.oxfordjournals.org/content/117/2/445.full.pdf

It's a study of how the conceptions of "authenticity" now common in the so-called "primitive art" world first took shape.  Since it's written for an audience of historians, I apologize in advance for the density of footnotes and the general dryness of tone.  Still, I thought it might contribute some interesting perspective on this question.

For those of you who don't have the benefit of a university or library computer, I have an off-print in pdf form that I'd be happy to send you, if you contact me off list.

John Monroe


#6107 From: RPearsonpe@...
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:55 pm
Subject: Re: Baga Nimba Guinea shoulder mask
rpearsonpeaol
Send Email Send Email
 
John
 
 I have a similar mask, but more signs of 'age & wear', probably "enhanced". Mask is about 24" tall, a top of head mask. Definitely not a top of shoulder mask. Still an interesting mask.
 
bob
 
In a message dated 1/15/2013 10:53:56 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, jmonroe@... writes:


#6108 From: RPearsonpe@...
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks
rpearsonpeaol
Send Email Send Email
 
John et al
 
One of the earlier articles I read on Kifewbe masks stated that early European collectors liked 'bigger and with a higher crescent ridge', so the Africans started carving what the trade wanted. I have some nice 'small'' Kifewbe masks, and one 'large' with a large crest-and value them all.
 
As for 'old masterpieces' vs 'new tourist', look at old photos to see the 'old masterpieces' , many pieces of which are both crude and ugly, so viva the tourist influence. "Art" is not just "Old".
 
bob
 
In a message dated 1/15/2013 11:49:49 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, jmonroe@... writes:
 

Dear Group --

These are very interesting messages.  As a historian of material culture, I've got to say that it's too bad the collection Jeff describes got disbursed -- it would be a valuable (and rare) document of the state of the African market at the time, though still probably not worth much money.  Tourist art has an art history of its own, but is basically "invisible," because it has always been considered unworthy of documentation.  While this situation can appear to have a self-evident aesthetic justification, I still think it's a shame, given how important the production of these objects has been and continues to be in many places in Africa.  Sometimes, also, there are examples of "tourist work" that nevertheless attain what we, as Western connoisseurs, would consider to be museum-worthy aesthetic distinction: for instance, the work of Thomas Ona, Osei Bonsu or Mutisya Munge.

Interestingly, objects from the Congo were really the first African sculptures to show up on the US market -- unlike the French situation, where the first objects were from Gabon, Cote d'Ivoire, Mali, etc.  Yaelle Biro, the curator of the show at the Met, has some interesting things to say about that in the special issue of Tribal Art magazine published to accompany the show: http://www.tribalartmagazine.com/en/musees/metropolitan_museum_of_art.html

When I spoke with her about the exhibit, by the way, she noted that her decision to include the various "inauthentic" objects was a conscious choice to go against common art museum practice.  Normally, the inconvenient "missteps" of early connoisseurs are edited out, and the focus gets shifted to canonical objects that are still considered "masterworks" -- reinforcing a sense that those early dealers had uniquely good "eyes."  In fact, the reality was much more complicated, and the quality much more variable -- an impression this show seeks to convey.  Even Paul Guillaume bought and sold some "duds." 

At that point, people hadn't really seen much African art in the first place, and what struck them as appealing is not necessarily what connoisseurs today have taught themselves to appreciate.  Think, for instance, of the black Baule mask in Man Ray's famous picture "Noire et Blanche."  It's *obviously* "fake," and yet it struck Man Ray as worthy material for incorporation into his iconic image.  Since then, by the way, the mask has gotten lost, probably because on its own, judged according to current norms of connoisseurship, it's "nothing special."

Steve, though, isn't quite correct when he suggests that "Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces 'for the trade.'"  Actually, they are still worth *much less* than the objects deemed "authentic," and are considered to have value only as historical documents, rather than as valid works of art in themselves.  In general, they are objects that the art historical world has lost track of over the years, and that Biro has turned up thanks to some pretty astounding detective work.

John Monroe






From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [African_Arts@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Jeff Spurr [jbspurr@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:29 PM
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified masks

 

Dear Steve et al,

I have not had an opportunity to see the Met exhibit, although I hope to.  Your comment prompts a couple thoughts.  Ninety years ago many local artistic traditions were still fully viable.  Thus an object not only made traditionally but intended for traditional purposes could still be collected before it had developed any or much patina of use.  How are we to know?  Not very likely that we can.  Of course colon figures were already being produced by then, and yet they are collected.  Centuries before the Afro-Portuguese ivories were being produced for sale, but are considered masterpieces of African art, not objects of dubious status.  Time and quality work wonders.

On the other hand, back in the late 1980s, a friend of mine who was an antiques dealer told me that the municipal library of Manchester New Hampshire had been given a collection of African art from a local estate with the notion that they could derive some income from its sale.  He invited me along to assess the prospects of his making any money were he to acquire it (it being offered only as a whole).  What made this attractive:  everything had been acquired during one trip to West and Central African in 1917.  Needless to say, visions of sugar plums were dancing in my head as we raced northwards from Boston.  What we found was more like a pile of coals.  I was surprised and chagrined to discover that a whole host of tourist tchotchkes were already available to the unwary tourist way back then.  Nothing at all like traditional sculpture made for sale, mind you, but novelties clearly aimed at this new market.  There was also a large stack of elephant tusks, not subjected to any sort of cultural intervention.  The only things of genuine interest and clearly made for traditional use were some wonderful textiles from Sierra Leone and Liberia, plus a fine carved Kuba horn.  There were a few Kuba textiles, but none of aesthetic interest.  The whole was not worth the amount demanded, so, disappointed, we went our way.  Still, it provided some insights into the scene before the development of "airport" art as we know it.

Best,

Jeff


Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:21:55 -0000
Subject: [African_Arts] Metropolitan Museum exhibit -- and two unidentified
 masks


 
Some of you may already have seen the NY Metropolitan Museum's exhibit on "African Art, New York and the Avant-Garde." It's a small but very interesting exhibit, essentially on the arrival of African Art in New York in the early part of the 20th century. One thing that struck me, in light of the recent discussions here about authenticity, is that the exhibit commentaries say that certain pieces that arrived here 90 years ago or so and were treated as collectible art may have been made for export -- as indicated by their lack of signs of use and (if I remember correctly) their sometimes being a fusion of styles. Presumably these pieces are now absolutely established as pieces of art rather than as old pieces "for the trade."

Meanwhile, I've just posted in "Unidentified mask(s)" a third photo, called "pair of masks." As you'll see, it shows two masks, quite brightly colored, each about 8 inches high. I would guess they were made for sale though I don't know that; anyway, I'm interested to know what style(s), if any, they are made in. The folder's URL is:


#6109 From: Lucas San <lucasanart@...>
Date: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:51 pm
Subject: Re: Re : Can you give me information about this sculpture?
lucasanart
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Martine,

The mask he wears on his head is a mask mumuye, as I have researched on the Internet.

Attachment 2 images of the mask.
 


I wonder if anyone has any information on this mask or sculpture representing.

Thank you very much to all.

Best regards,
Ruben

De: Mon Bakota <monbakota@...>
Para: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Enviado: Martes 15 de enero de 2013 18:06
Asunto: Re : [African_Arts] Can you give me information about this sculpture?
 
Your Mumuye seems like Chamba statue.

the face is chamba but the rest of the body is mumuye.

MArtine

--- En date de : Mar 15.1.13, lucasanart <lucasanart@...> a écrit :

De: lucasanart <lucasanart@...>
Objet: [African_Arts] Can you give me information about this sculpture?
À: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mardi 15 janvier 2013, 10h51

Hi all,Can you give me information about this sculpture?I recently acquired this sculpture Mumuye of 1.15 meters.It seems like a rare sculpture because it has a mask.Do you know what is called the mask and dance for ritual or used?What do you think of this sculpture?I appreciate that would tell me all the information you can about this sculpture.The photos you see on this link:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1370437052/pic/listThank you very much.Best regards to all,Ruben------------------------------------African Arts and Culture Discussion Group*Website for the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/*Photos folder for the group: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos *Message archives for the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/messages Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/<*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/join    (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email:    African_Arts-digest@yahoogroups.com     African_Arts-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    African_Arts-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#6110 From: "bubblesscotch" <rdvsnyc@...>
Date: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:20 pm
Subject: Photos & help on identifying
bubblesscotch
Send Email Send Email
 
First, thank you for any information given on the following piece.
I have attached a link to some photos I took today.

A friend has given this to me to grace my home.
However, I know nothing about it other than it is a Mumuye figure.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1427161050/pic/list

For insurance purposes, I would like to have it appraised.

If anyone can help me with an estimate or any more information I would be
grateful.  I truly love this sculpture.

Thank you!

R.

#6111 From: John Buxton <jbuxton@...>
Date: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:11 pm
Subject: RE: Photos & help on identifying
wrecker104
Send Email Send Email
 
Please send attached images.. I don't use the online albums because it takes far
more time for me to evaluate objects.  JB


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John A. Buxton, ISA CAPP
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972-239-9766 - Fax
Skype name - arttrak
214-556-5650 - Skype
www.arttrak.com - The art connection
http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/wgbh/roadshow/archive_search.cgi?q=&category=&ap\
praiser=John+Buxton
Antiques Roadshow


From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:African_Arts@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of bubblesscotch
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:21 PM
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [African_Arts] Photos & help on identifying



First, thank you for any information given on the following piece.
I have attached a link to some photos I took today.

A friend has given this to me to grace my home.
However, I know nothing about it other than it is a Mumuye figure.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1427161050/pic/list

For insurance purposes, I would like to have it appraised.

If anyone can help me with an estimate or any more information I would be
grateful. I truly love this sculpture.

Thank you!

R.

#6112 From: "lucasanart" <lucasanart@...>
Date: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Help to identify the mask
lucasanart
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,

Is that this sculpture is Mumuye, told me the person who sold it to me, but I
would like to know something about the mask he wears fantastic sculpture.

Anybody can help me identify the mask?

You can see the photos of the sculpture on the link below, I also included 2
photos of masks which seem mumuye:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1370437052/pic/list

Thank you very much to all.

Best regards,
Ruben

#6113 From: <carol@...>
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:30 am
Subject: Could this figure be African?
carousel96
Send Email Send Email
 
I have had this figure for a number of years ; no one has been able to figure out what it is or where it came from. It is about 10 inches tall, 4 inches wide and hollowed out. I am thinking it might have been on a post of some kind. It appears to have some age on it.
Thanks
http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady2.jpg

#6114 From: "gayle" <gdegregori@...>
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:09 pm
Subject: Re: Could this figure be African?
gdegregori...
Send Email Send Email
 
I think it's African-American

--- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:
>
>
> I have had this figure for a number of years " no one has been able to
figure out what it is or where it came from. It is about 10 inches tall, 4
inches wide and hollowed out. I am thinking it might have been on a post of some
kind. It appears to have some age on it.
>
> Thanks
>
> http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady3.jpg
> http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady1.jpg
> http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady5.jpg
> http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady4.jpg
> http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady2.jpg
>

#6115 From: Ed Jones <bucit@...>
Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:44 pm
Subject: Re: Could this figure be African?
bucit
Send Email Send Email
 
It is not tribal African.  Try South American recent ethnographics.
 
Ed
 
From: "carol@..." <carol@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:30 AM
Subject: [African_Arts] Could this figure be African?
 
 
 
I have had this figure for a number of years ; no one has been able to figure out what it is or where it came from. It is about 10 inches tall, 4 inches wide and hollowed out. I am thinking it might have been on a post of some kind. It appears to have some age on it.
 
Thanks
 
http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady3.jpg
http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady1.jpg
http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady5.jpg
http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady4.jpg
http://darkwolfpichosting.com/files/2/ebay/artwork/lady2.jpg

#6116 From: "chaoslimited" <salesforce@...>
Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:10 pm
Subject: Eban Staff Figures
chaoslimited
Send Email Send Email
 
Greetings.

I have two bronze Yoruba figures (Eban Staff) that I got from my father.  I'm
pretty sure I know what they are, but what I'm not sure of is the quality.  That
always seems to be the issue with African items.  You have your tourist items
made only as decoration.  You have items made to LOOK like they're of tribal
usage.  And then you have vintage, used items... but within that group there is
a range of collectibility and value.

So, my questions are:

1) Are these Yoruba Eban Staff figures?

2) Are they tourist of "of use".

3) What's the opinion of their quality.

The photos are at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/745509958\
/view

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/190974159\
2/view

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/151906903\
9/view

Thanks in advance,

jack

#6117 From: Gi Mateusen <mateusen@...>
Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:59 pm
Subject: Re: Eban Staff Figures
mateusen1
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,
About your questions:
1. Indeed these pieces are representing Yoruba Eban staff  figures
2. It's not easy to give an opinion without the possibility to have the piece in the hand but the oxidation looks  recently made. Normally these figures have on the top of the head a ring to make it possible to connect both figures with a chain. I can't see any trace of this kind. Also the shape of the head and no traces of use give me the impression that the figures are recently made. 
Kind regards

Op 28-jan.-2013, om 23:10 heeft chaoslimited het volgende geschreven:

 

Greetings.

I have two bronze Yoruba figures (Eban Staff) that I got from my father. I'm pretty sure I know what they are, but what I'm not sure of is the quality. That always seems to be the issue with African items. You have your tourist items made only as decoration. You have items made to LOOK like they're of tribal usage. And then you have vintage, used items... but within that group there is a range of collectibility and value.

So, my questions are:

1) Are these Yoruba Eban Staff figures?

2) Are they tourist of "of use".

3) What's the opinion of their quality.

The photos are at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/745509958/view

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/1909741592/view

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/1519069039/view

Thanks in advance,

jack



#6118 From: Beth Peart <beepeawee1@...>
Date: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:30 am
Subject: Re: Eban Staff Figures
beepeawee1...
Send Email Send Email
 
 Edan (not Eban) staffs are used within Ogboni societies that govern secular affairs in traditional Yoruba culture. They are fairly rare, whether made for the art market, or not. Afraid I can't weigh in on authenticity of these. I don't see them often enough to have a sense, for certain, though my suspicion is that they were made for the trade. They're missing the chains that bind the figures together, whether through design or accident.  Someone else may fill you in more.
Cheers
Beth
 







ONÍSÙÚRÙ NI YÍÒ JOGÚN AYÉ
The patient person shall inherit the earth


From: chaoslimited <salesforce@...>
To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 5:10:30 PM
Subject: [African_Arts] Eban Staff Figures

 
Greetings.

I have two bronze Yoruba figures (Eban Staff) that I got from my father. I'm pretty sure I know what they are, but what I'm not sure of is the quality. That always seems to be the issue with African items. You have your tourist items made only as decoration. You have items made to LOOK like they're of tribal usage. And then you have vintage, used items... but within that group there is a range of collectibility and value.

So, my questions are:

1) Are these Yoruba Eban Staff figures?

2) Are they tourist of "of use".

3) What's the opinion of their quality.

The photos are at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/745509958/view

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/1909741592/view

and

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1762595440/pic/1519069039/view

Thanks in advance,

jack




#6119 From: "Mike Yates" <lokaart@...>
Date: Sat Feb 2, 2013 8:47 am
Subject: Exhibition of Adan Art.
aimeeloka
Send Email Send Email
 
Just to let you know that I am organising an exhibition of Adan art at the
Postmodern Gallery, Theatre Square, Swindon, Wiltshire, England. The exhibition
"Strange but Somehow Beautiful - art of the Adan People of south-east Ghana"
will run from Thursday 14th March until Saturday 23rd March, open every day from
11am to 4pm. I will be giving a talk on the collection - there will be about 200
pieces on display, including a few Ewe and Fon items, and Kente cloths - on
Wednesday 20th March, at 7pm. Full details can be found on www.artsite.ltd.uk
Adan art is not that well known in the west. But I have two articles on Adan art
which can be seen on the Dutch Kunstpedia website (in the Tribal Art section).
It will be great to see any members at the exhibition.

Mike Yates

#6120 From: RPearsonpe@...
Date: Sat Feb 2, 2013 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Exhibition of Adan Art.
rpearsonpeaol
Send Email Send Email
 
Taking photos of the exhibit and opening and posting them on this group would be a nice addition .England a little bit distant.
 
bob
 
In a message dated 2/2/2013 9:20:48 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, lokaart@... writes:
 

Just to let you know that I am organising an exhibition of Adan art at the Postmodern Gallery, Theatre Square, Swindon, Wiltshire, England. The exhibition "Strange but Somehow Beautiful - art of the Adan People of south-east Ghana" will run from Thursday 14th March until Saturday 23rd March, open every day from 11am to 4pm. I will be giving a talk on the collection - there will be about 200 pieces on display, including a few Ewe and Fon items, and Kente cloths - on Wednesday 20th March, at 7pm. Full details can be found on www.artsite.ltd.uk
Adan art is not that well known in the west. But I have two articles on Adan art which can be seen on the Dutch Kunstpedia website (in the Tribal Art section). It will be great to see any members at the exhibition.

Mike Yates


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