Rand
Nice photos...there was an article in the NYTimes last
week about audio virtual tours designed specifically
for iPods (podcasting is the actual term)...perhaps
you, or another member of this group, might want to
consider creating such a podcast...it could be used
while walking around the MET or even while viewing
your website...I'll be happy to lend whatever
technical assistance anyone needs..BTW, I'm a new
member and have enjoyed reading the posts here.
Hal

--- Rand African Art <rand@...> wrote:

>
> While I was in NY for the Tribal Arts show a couple
> of weeks ago, I also visited the MET to see the
> African art collection. It was my first trip to the
> MET so it was a real treat to visit the objects that
> I have only seen previously and admired on their
> website.
>
>
>
> I brough my camera and took over 100 photos while I
> was there, and I have put most of them on a page on
> my website to give people a virtual tour of the
> collection that is currently displayed. If you have
> never been there to see the collection, then this is
> an easy way to see it without having to book a trip.
> If you have already seen it then maybe this will be
> a nice revisit.
>
>
>
> I also went to the Natural History Museum while I
> was there based on a recommendation from Bob Rizzo
> who is a member of the discussion group who I met
> while I was in NY. They also have a fantastic
> collection, and have many pieces with full costumes
> on display. I would also recommend visiting it if
> you are in New York.
>
>
>
> Below is the link to the virtual tour of the African
> art collection at the MET. Most of the photos came
> out pretty good, but a lot of them were taken
> through the Plexiglas display cases so there is some
> reflection. Overall I think the photos came out
> pretty good and I hope you enjoy them.
>
>
>
> Please keep in mind that if you do not have a high
> speed internet connection the page may take a long
> time to load since there are over 90 photos on the
> page. You can click on any photo on the page to see
> a full size version.
>
>
>
http://randafricanart.com/Met_museum_virtual_tour.html
>
> Cheers!
> RAND
> www.randafricanart.com
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Rand,
Thanks for sharing those pictures from the Metropolitan. I enjoyed them very
much.
Did you have time to wonder around the main room of the Rockefeller wing?
I'm talking about the big room with all of the huge Asmat sculptures. It is
the most impressive museum display I know of... anywhere!  Even if you're
not into PNG material, it is worth a visit.
Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rand African Art" <rand@...>
To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 1:09 PM
Subject: [African_Arts] Virtual tour of the African art collection at the
Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY


>
> While I was in NY for the Tribal Arts show a couple of weeks ago, I also
visited the MET to see the African art collection. It was my first trip to
the MET so it was a real treat to visit the objects that I have only seen
previously and admired on their website.
>
>
>
> I brough my camera and took over 100 photos while I was there, and I have
put most of them on a page on my website to give people a virtual tour of
the collection that is currently displayed. If you have never been there to
see the collection, then this is an easy way to see it without having to
book a trip. If you have already seen it then maybe this will be a nice
revisit.
>
>
>
> I also went to the Natural History Museum while I was there based on a
recommendation from Bob Rizzo who is a member of the discussion group who I
met while I was in NY. They also have a fantastic collection, and have many
pieces with full costumes on display. I would also recommend visiting it if
you are in New York.
>
>
>
> Below is the link to the virtual tour of the African art collection at the
MET. Most of the photos came out pretty good, but a lot of them were taken
through the Plexiglas display cases so there is some reflection. Overall I
think the photos came out pretty good and I hope you enjoy them.
>
>
>
> Please keep in mind that if you do not have a high speed internet
connection the page may take a long time to load since there are over 90
photos on the page. You can click on any photo on the page to see a full
size version.
>
>
> http://randafricanart.com/Met_museum_virtual_tour.html
>
> Cheers!
> RAND
> www.randafricanart.com
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


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Hi Rand: Thanks for the photo tour.Great job as always.In your spare
time !!! you might start thinking about doing a documentary film.Cannes
film festival is ready.Maybe it's time for the African Arts and
Antique group Museum to start!!Just a thought,and another project for
you.Almost a 1000 members from both groups,1 item donated from each
member,tax free donation,a good start.no?Location Harlem NYC,it was the
culture center in the early 20th century,and is now exsperiencing a
renewed interest in repeating it's history.Oh well,just a simple mind
with a complex idea.Reply's always appreciated,Have a great day,to you
and all. Regards, Ron

--
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Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005

Rand, thanks for the virtual tour.  I've been meaning to make it up to the Met for several years now.  This was a nice, easy way to get a tast of the Met collection.  Thanks, Coleman

--
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Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005

John,
I think you have brought up a very valid point. This would be a
perfect place to discuss artists such as Twins Seven Seven, Bruce
Onobrakpeya and the like.
I think you are correct, there isn't anywhere to discuss artists such
as these(I take it this is what you mean by non tradition based??)
Cheers
Craig





--- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, John Nash <jnash@y...> wrote:
> Rand,
>
> Can I ask you a question? I read what you write about the
difference between the goals of this group as opposed to Norden's:
>
> "David's focus is items over 50 years old, and our focus is
exploring traditional African cultural and aesthetic forms AND modern
tradition-based works (with an eye toward the future)"
>
> But I'm left wondering exactly what you mean by "modern tradition-
based works". Is this meant to include new works made in a
traditional style, even when the local use of that tradition may be
long gone? in other words works made exclusively for the tourist, or
foreign market? would it include also new works made to look older
(i.e. what most people would call 'fakes')? Or are we interested here
only in artworks which have a local, indigenous audience?
>
> More generally, I'm also wondering why you and Lee may have chosen
not to simply state as the goal of the group that ALL African Arts be
discussed here (without the 'tradition-based' qualifier). I don't
know how many people are out there with an interest in contemporary
African artworks which may not be viewed as 'tradition-based', but
there certainly seems to be a lack of a place where these can be
discussed - (at least I haven't found one!) There might be a need to
be filled there... (that would certainly create a clear distinction
between this group and Norden's)
>
> cheers,
> john

Dear Friends,
    I recently purchased what was told to me to be a Nigerian Ceremonial
mask circa 1930's - 1940's. I was thoroughly intrigued by the mask, so
much so, that I had to take it home with me.
    Having no general knowledge of masks, in fact this is my first mask,
I'm looking for any assistance in finding the history of this mask. Is
it Nigerian? In what ceremony would it be involved? What significance
does the mask have?....etc......etc.
    Mind you, whether or not the description of the mask originally
given to me is valid or not, I'm keeping the mask. It's saying
something to me, but I don't know what.....yet. For photos, look for
the album listed as "grrrrila101".

Thank you,
Dean Diaz

hello Dean  ,

   This mask is Not Nigerian , it is from the Bamana (bambara) or
Malinke groups of MALI ,Africa.
  I beleieve they were Traditionally used in agricultural ceremonies or
festivals.
  Really it is difficult to say how old this is , but I would be
surprised if it is as old as 1930/40's  , My best guess would be more
contemporary.

  Im sure sme other members can add some insight.
   regards -Todd



--- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "grrrrila101" <grrrrila101@y...>
wrote:
> Dear Friends,
>    I recently purchased what was told to me to be a Nigerian Ceremonial
> mask circa 1930's - 1940's. I was thoroughly intrigued by the mask, so
> much so, that I had to take it home with me.
>    Having no general knowledge of masks, in fact this is my first mask,
> I'm looking for any assistance in finding the history of this mask. Is
> it Nigerian? In what ceremony would it be involved? What significance
> does the mask have?....etc......etc.
>    Mind you, whether or not the description of the mask originally
> given to me is valid or not, I'm keeping the mask. It's saying
> something to me, but I don't know what.....yet. For photos, look for
> the album listed as "grrrrila101".
>
> Thank you,
> Dean Diaz

Dean:

Thanks for posting images of your mask.  My thoughts:

The basic structure of -- and applied metalwork upon -- the mask you
have illustrated seems to come more likely from the Malinka or Marka in
Southern and, I believe, Western, Mali rather than coming from any
Nigerian tradition.  While I do not recall seeing any MARKA examples
with so pronounced a figure atop the head and between the horns such as
yours, this inclusion is reminiscent of the neighboring, related
Bambara. The Marka do, however, produce some horned masks not
dissimilar to the Bambara Ntomo masks so perhaps we are seeing a
sharing of elements.  I believe a web-search for "Marka Mask" will
yield to you some related visual references.

Let us know what you find, and I will forward any related examples I
see that may shed light on your mask.

Besr, Lee

Hi Dean

It's easy to see why you are attracted to the mask.

It's definitely not done in a Nigerian style, but has design elements
and materials of Mali.  It appears to be a mixture of styles from
that region.

Stylistic mixes are most often found on objects made for export, for
decorative use rather than for ritual use within the carver's local
community.  Most likely, yours is in this category.

Enjoy - it's a nice ethnographic touch for your home.

Regards

Steve Price

--- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "grrrrila101" <grrrrila101@y...>
wrote:
> Dear Friends,
>    I recently purchased what was told to me to be a Nigerian
Ceremonial
> mask circa 1930's - 1940's. I was thoroughly intrigued by the mask,
so
> much so, that I had to take it home with me.
>    Having no general knowledge of masks, in fact this is my first
mask,
> I'm looking for any assistance in finding the history of this mask.
Is
> it Nigerian? In what ceremony would it be involved? What
significance
> does the mask have?....etc......etc.
>    Mind you, whether or not the description of the mask originally
> given to me is valid or not, I'm keeping the mask. It's saying
> something to me, but I don't know what.....yet. For photos, look
for
> the album listed as "grrrrila101".
>
> Thank you,
> Dean Diaz

Dear Friends,
   I recently purchased what was told to me to be a Nigerian Ceremonial
mask circa 1930's - 1940's. I was thoroughly intrigued by the mask, so
much so, that I had to take it home with me.
   Having no general knowledge of masks, in fact this is my first mask,
I'm looking for any assistance in finding the history of this mask. Is
it Nigerian? In what ceremony would it be involved? What significance
does the mask have?....etc......etc.
   Mind you, whether or not the description of the mask originally
given to me is valid or not, I'm keeping the mask. It's saying
something to me, but I don't know what.....yet. For photos, look for
the album listed as "grrrrila101".

Thank you,
Dean Diaz

John,
I think you have brought up a very valid point. This would be a
perfect place to discuss artists such as Twins Seven Seven, Bruce
Onobrakpeya and the like.
I think you are correct, there isn't anywhere to discuss artists such
as these(I take it this is what you mean by non tradition based??)
Cheers
Craig 





--- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, John Nash <jnash@y...> wrote:
> Rand,
> 
> Can I ask you a question? I read what you write about the
difference between the goals of this group as opposed to Norden's:
>
> "David's focus is items over 50 years old, and our focus is
exploring traditional African cultural and aesthetic forms AND modern
tradition-based works (with an eye toward the future)"
> 
> But I'm left wondering exactly what you mean by "modern tradition-
based works". Is this meant to include new works made in a
traditional style, even when the local use of that tradition may be
long gone? in other words works made exclusively for the tourist, or
foreign market? would it include also new works made to look older
(i.e. what most people would call 'fakes')? Or are we interested here
only in artworks which have a local, indigenous audience?
> 
> More generally, I'm also wondering why you and Lee may have chosen
not to simply state as the goal of the group that ALL African Arts be
discussed here (without the 'tradition-based' qualifier). I don't
know how many people are out there with an interest in contemporary
African artworks which may not be viewed as 'tradition-based', but
there certainly seems to be a lack of a place where these can be
discussed - (at least I haven't found one!) There might be a need to
be filled there... (that would certainly create a clear distinction
between this group and Norden's)
> 
> cheers,
> john

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
• http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/
•  
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
• African_Arts-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
•  
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hi all,

I am a new member of this group, and I truly enjoy reading this group discussions.

Currently, I have a small collection of African Arts,
some of the items are old and some are fairly new,
and some are what I call: hybrids a mix of different tribe influences,
most likely made for the tourist market.

Truly, I like them all and they all represent some form of art and expression.
Finding today older piece is not easy and if you do find one,
you certainly do not know if the piece is a real one or a fake.
Personally, I am in possession of few pieces that I know are old, because
I inherited them from my grandfather who traveled in Africa in 1920,
and I think those are the only pieces I can be certain that are old,

but,

for me all of African Art pieces are beautiful: new, modern, older or rare and unique,
some more attractive then others, nonetheless,
I find it totally depending on our own taste, preference and what we like to collect.
I think of them as a form of someone's expression.
As a group we shouldn't limit our self to discus just one a very narrow topic. 

Best Regards
Erik


At 03:07 PM 6/7/2005 +0000, you wrote:

John,
I think you have brought up a very valid point. This would be a
perfect place to discuss artists such as Twins Seven Seven, Bruce
Onobrakpeya and the like.
I think you are correct, there isn't anywhere to discuss artists such
as these(I take it this is what you mean by non tradition based??)
Cheers
Craig 





--- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, John Nash <jnash@y...> wrote:
> Rand,
> 
> Can I ask you a question? I read what you write about the
difference between the goals of this group as opposed to Norden's:
>
> "David's focus is items over 50 years old, and our focus is
exploring traditional African cultural and aesthetic forms AND modern
tradition-based works (with an eye toward the future)"
> 
> But I'm left wondering exactly what you mean by "modern tradition-
based works". Is this meant to include new works made in a
traditional style, even when the local use of that tradition may be
long gone? in other words works made exclusively for the tourist, or
foreign market? would it include also new works made to look older
(i.e. what most people would call 'fakes')? Or are we interested here
only in artworks which have a local, indigenous audience?
> 
> More generally, I'm also wondering why you and Lee may have chosen
not to simply state as the goal of the group that ALL African Arts be
discussed here (without the 'tradition-based' qualifier). I don't
know how many people are out there with an interest in contemporary
African artworks which may not be viewed as 'tradition-based', but
there certainly seems to be a lack of a place where these can be
discussed - (at least I haven't found one!) There might be a need to
be filled there... (that would certainly create a clear distinction
between this group and Norden's)
> 
> cheers,
> john

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
• http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
• African_Arts-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Kind greetings to all -
I am new to the group and have joined to gain knowledge and insight
into the fascinating world of African Arts.
Since I am a novice (green, so green - that I'm almost yellow!), I
would like to have recommendations on "starter" books that will
provide a good/accurate (relative term, I am sure)and comprehensive
view of African artifacts.
Also - could you please give me some recommendations on a supplier of
stands.
Thanks so much and am looking forward to informative and lively
discussions from the group.

Beth

Bonjour !

Your mask has the characteristics of N'golo masks (name of the masks) which are used by the MARKA ethno-group in Mali.

Cheers

Véro 

grrrrila101 <grrrrila101@...> wrote:

Dear Friends,
   I recently purchased what was told to me to be a Nigerian Ceremonial
mask circa 1930's - 1940's. I was thoroughly intrigued by the mask, so
much so, that I had to take it home with me.
   Having no general knowledge of masks, in fact this is my first mask,
I'm looking for any assistance in finding the history of this mask. Is
it Nigerian? In what ceremony would it be involved? What significance
does the mask have?....etc......etc.
   Mind you, whether or not the description of the mask originally
given to me is valid or not, I'm keeping the mask. It's saying
something to me, but I don't know what.....yet. For photos, look for
the album listed as "grrrrila101".

Thank you,
Dean Diaz

---

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

 

As far as stands go I know of a couple of good sources. For general stands, especially stands for helmet masks, I buy from Todd and Lina at Tribal Gatherings (who are members of this group). I got the chance to finally meet Todd a few weeks back at the Tribal Arts show in NY. Just click on the link to display stands when you go to the link below.

 

http://www.tribalgatherings.com/homepage.html

 

Custom stand makers are all around the country as well and can be affordable to make stands for pieces needing a custom fitted stand. I am lucky to have one of the best around right here in Denver, his name is Ken Frederick. He has a very good eye and has made some very excellent stands for me for quite a few pieces. Since I work with Ken during the day in telecom, a lot of people have shipped their masks to me, I give them to Ken to make the stands and then I ship the mask and the stand back to the person. He does it at night and on the weekends and depending on the complexity of the stand will charge anywhere from $50 to $100. I can put people in contact with him if you are interested.

-------------- Original message --------------

Dear group,

 

A member of this group who is from Spain that I have been corresponding with for about a year and a half now has sent me a request for help in identification of some pieces in his collection.

 

He is a very passionate young collector of many things and has been identifying and photographing the items in his collection and is putting a small website together for them all. There are a few that he is having trouble with identifying and I told him I would post the message to the group to see if anyone might be able to assist him.

 

An interesting story about how he began collecting, which I hope he doesn’t mind me sharing, is the following:

 

I tell you my story. When I was only twelve, my mother gave me a particular present in my birthday. She bought me two masks (not african, I think form South America). Then I began to be interested in maks. Instead of demand toys and tipical things for my age, I wanted african mask and Antiques (I collect both).

 

I have provided links to the photos and have numbered them 1 to 6 so if people respond they can place their attribution next to a number. The goal here is to help this collector in identifying these items he is having trouble with, he is not necessarily interested in having the pieces critiqued.

 

Thank you to anyone who can be of assistance to him, his name is Jose.

 

 He asks:

 

Do you think this mask is Bwa or Bobo?

 

1)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UAAAAKgWoHREeOYETIxn!FaQqw0cEk*gAeLrFr6JNXh7qDiy1!sqcFuxu9tf27f9j9NC1btgX3wqtYKkPu5cRlJiqGnk78xr6sYpMcdzi1rpEW2x2HJIBAAAAAAAAAAA/M%C3%A1scara%20Bwo%201.jpg?dc=4675515715616813504

 

The seller said “Bobo” but I have seen some pictures of Bwa, and they have similar masks.

For example, this photo has been taken to a Bwa And it´s really similar to mine.

: http://www.uiowa.edu/~africart/Burkina_mask_catalogue/image/1768_bwa_boni_funeral.jpg

 

·                                 2)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0XwAjA90aSO6MDWt0E7a3xTDzvHBtlKZVKnUQcKxCxlbqELZIxUOoBayK29i!!HPzp4vonAoIMSiSTpwkGiYtYw3Mi2IMeM!L09o0FVDNRi3pFdliWBaMRBxFHAx6AhEpwIgvYRtzHVA/Figura%20B%C3%A1mbara%20A1%20(Abuelo).JPG?dc=4675512965691773615 The seller said it was bamana, but I am not sure.

 

·                                 3)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VgD5AsUY*SBEeOYETIxn!FaQqw0cEk*gIep95KwsBcNWCqMJBdETZtooSPifIWnd4qeb*Fsr6CF23CzcYF79zdk3JAhB0tgN6XD3mEXPPWyVqK5i3ieqbn76nlv7r8!G/M%C3%A1scara%20Terracota%201.JPG?dc=4675512965762936451 It´s made of Terra Cotta. I have never seen another like this one.

 

·                                 4)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TgAsA8EWn30IfjkMWz19oPw5*iU8lp!XduuDeGcXlzzCuZvyEZGjw1cpGWLWJlqy3KX*9xdwN4Cm*1pYw2wSv40u*ce1zWVkzroGmlIA*HXKNzJ8VYjEKw/Fetiche%20Yoruba%201.JPG?dc=4675512967132787637 It´s a fetish. The seller said Yoruba but I am not sure.

 

·                                 5)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WAAWAx8YzwREeOYETIxn!FaQqw0cEk*gbQWGhuxueLMAaMXvO9kkbTXcVXltqg*Glu5nwcoz2UXvWWWViQoTUL8MvcuDcVTKpKvgDvudtq*1BweLm!6Kt1u0swWpmgl*NwAAAP****8/M%C3%A1scara%20Baul%C3%A9%20A1.JPG?dc=4675512967186320428 Are you sure it is baulé? It´s very similar to gouro masks. What is the differences between them??

 

·                                 6)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TwAwAyMXWZgDCYo2GDS3vUOp74oOEUBIKw872ovPaOsTbPEViyf3*5MUfnURwY9ZY8FjQ*2xHEJ0H1ahSLw*NCjgnwaFq3YZsO9wA7goyMF858lBBcem6Q/Sin%20Identificar%201.JPG?dc=4675512967281668702 It seems to be baulé, but I am not sure.

 

 

 

 

Note to Moyo Okediji:

great post! Thanks for some beautiful sanity (at
last).

Also to Veronique:

Great post too about the primates. Thanks.

Des.


--- MOYOSORE OKEDIJI <okdg@...> a écrit :

> Dear all:
>
> The sky is wide enough
> For two birds to fly side by side
> Without locking wings.
> A Yoruba proverb.
> Divination was cast for Rand.
> Divination was cast for David.
> On the day both friends
> Disagreed over the definition and direction
> Of African art.
> Both friends must offer sacrifices:
> Two swift running rats
> Two fast swimming fishes
> Two she-goats heavy with pregnancy
> Two  rams with convoluted horns.
> The offering of sacrifices is creative
> Not offering sacrifices is destructive.
> May we not use our own hands
> To pull down the house we built
> May we not use our own tongues
> To curse the child we birthed
> May we not use our own feet
> To kick the spouse we love
> May we not blind our own eyes
> To spite the dancing masquerade
> May our groups grow larger and larger
> May our list grow longer and longer
> May our enemies become our friends
> May our friends become our kin
> May our kin become the king
> May the king become the mat
> On which the people recline
> Because the sky is wide enough
> For all birds to freely fly
> Without colliding and collapsing.
>
> Moyo Okediji
>
>
>
> Erik Lewandowski <elewando@...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am a new member of this group, and I truly enjoy
> reading this group discussions.
>
> Currently, I have a small collection of African
> Arts,
> some of the items are old and some are fairly new,
> and some are what I call: hybrids a mix of different
> tribe influences,
> most likely made for the tourist market.
>
> Truly, I like them all and they all represent some
> form of art and expression.
> Finding today older piece is not easy and if you do
> find one,
> you certainly do not know if the piece is a real one
> or a fake.
> Personally, I am in possession of few pieces that I
> know are old, because
> I inherited them from my grandfather who traveled in
> Africa in 1920,
> and I think those are the only pieces I can be
> certain that are old,
>
> but,
>
> for me all of African Art pieces are beautiful: new,
> modern, older or rare and unique,
> some more attractive then others, nonetheless,
> I find it totally depending on our own taste,
> preference and what we like to collect.
> I think of them as a form of someone's expression.
> As a group we shouldn't limit our self to discus
> just one a very narrow topic.
>
> Best Regards
> Erik
>
>
> At 03:07 PM 6/7/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> John,
> I think you have brought up a very valid point. This
> would be a
> perfect place to discuss artists such as Twins Seven
> Seven, Bruce
> Onobrakpeya and the like.
> I think you are correct, there isn't anywhere to
> discuss artists such
> as these(I take it this is what you mean by non
> tradition based??)
> Cheers
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, John Nash
> <jnash@y...> wrote:
> > Rand,
> >
> > Can I ask you a question? I read what you write
> about the
> difference between the goals of this group as
> opposed to Norden's:
> >
> > "David's focus is items over 50 years old, and our
> focus is
> exploring traditional African cultural and aesthetic
> forms AND modern
> tradition-based works (with an eye toward the
> future)"
> >
> > But I'm left wondering exactly what you mean by
> "modern tradition-
> based works". Is this meant to include new works
> made in a
> traditional style, even when the local use of that
> tradition may be
> long gone? in other words works made exclusively for
> the tourist, or
> foreign market? would it include also new works made
> to look older
> (i.e. what most people would call 'fakes')? Or are
> we interested here
> only in artworks which have a local, indigenous
> audience?
> >
> > More generally, I'm also wondering why you and Lee
> may have chosen
> not to simply state as the goal of the group that
> ALL African Arts be
> discussed here (without the 'tradition-based'
> qualifier). I don't
> know how many people are out there with an interest
> in contemporary
> African artworks which may not be viewed as
> 'tradition-based', but
> there certainly seems to be a lack of a place where
> these can be
> discussed - (at least I haven't found one!) There
> might be a need to
> be filled there... (that would certainly create a
> clear distinction
> between this group and Norden's)
> >
> > cheers,
> > john
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/
>
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>
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>
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>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/
>
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>
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>
>







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HELLO, I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE COULD HELP ME FIND A CERTAIN MESSAGE.  BACK
IN EARLY MARCH (WHEN THE GROUP FIRST STARTED) A MESSAGE WAS POSTED IN
REGARDS TO AUTHENTICITY OF AFRICAN ART.  I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT IF
SOMEONE IN THE GROUP COULD DIRECT ME TO THE MESSAGE.

THANKS

ANTWAN

>From: sanibelart@...
>Reply-To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
>To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Identification help for a member of the group
>Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:21:42 +0000
>
>Stepping out on a limb here - Two of the pieces look (from photos it is
>hard to tell) like Kongo pieces. One that is called Buale may very well be
>Yaure - a Baule sub-group. The terra cotta looks very Baule to me. And # 6
>looks like Punu.
>
>
>W8s
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
>Dear group,
>
>A member of this group who is from Spain that I have been corresponding
>with for about a year and a half now has sent me a request for help in
>identification of some pieces in his collection.
>
>He is a very passionate young collector of many things and has been
>identifying and photographing the items in his collection and is putting a
>small website together for them all. There are a few that he is having
>trouble with identifying and I told him I would post the message to the
>group to see if anyone might be able to assist him.
>
>An interesting story about how he began collecting, which I hope he doesn’t
>mind me sharing, is the following:
>
>I tell you my story. When I was only twelve, my mother gave me a particular
>present in my birthday. She bought me two masks (not african, I think form
>South America). Then I began to be interested in maks. Instead of demand
>toys and tipical things for my age, I wanted african mask and Antiques (I
>collect both).
>
>I have provided links to the photos and have numbered them 1 to 6 so if
>people respond they can place their attribution next to a number. The goal
>here is to help this collector in identifying these items he is having
>trouble with, he is not necessarily interested in having the pieces
>critiqued.
>
>Thank you to anyone who can be of assistance to him, his name is Jose.
>
>  He asks:
>
>Do you think this mask is Bwa or Bobo?
>
>1)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UAAAAKgWoHREeOYETIxn!FaQqw0cEk*gAeLrFr6JNXh7qD\
iy1!sqcFuxu9tf27f9j9NC1btgX3wqtYKkPu5cRlJiqGnk78xr6sYpMcdzi1rpEW2x2HJIBAAAAAAAAA\
AA/M%C3%A1scara%20Bwo%201.jpg?dc=4675515715616813504
>
>The seller said “Bobo” but I have seen some pictures of Bwa, and they have
>similar masks.
>For example, this photo has been taken to a Bwa And it´s really similar to
>mine.
>:
>http://www.uiowa.edu/~africart/Burkina_mask_catalogue/image/1768_bwa_boni_funer\
al.jpg
>
>·
>2)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0XwAjA90aSO6MDWt0E7a3xTDzvHBtlKZVKnUQcKxCxlbqEL\
ZIxUOoBayK29i!!HPzp4vonAoIMSiSTpwkGiYtYw3Mi2IMeM!L09o0FVDNRi3pFdliWBaMRBxFHAx6Ah\
EpwIgvYRtzHVA/Figura%20B%C3%A1mbara%20A1%20(Abuelo).JPG?dc=4675512965691773615
>The seller said it was bamana, but I am not sure.
>
>·
>3)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VgD5AsUY*SBEeOYETIxn!FaQqw0cEk*gIep95KwsBcNWCq\
MJBdETZtooSPifIWnd4qeb*Fsr6CF23CzcYF79zdk3JAhB0tgN6XD3mEXPPWyVqK5i3ieqbn76nlv7r8\
!G/M%C3%A1scara%20Terracota%201.JPG?dc=4675512965762936451
>It´s made of Terra Cotta. I have never seen another like this one.
>
>·
>4)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TgAsA8EWn30IfjkMWz19oPw5*iU8lp!XduuDeGcXlzzCuZ\
vyEZGjw1cpGWLWJlqy3KX*9xdwN4Cm*1pYw2wSv40u*ce1zWVkzroGmlIA*HXKNzJ8VYjEKw/Fetiche\
%20Yoruba%201.JPG?dc=4675512967132787637
>It´s a fetish. The seller said Yoruba but I am not sure.
>
>·
>5)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WAAWAx8YzwREeOYETIxn!FaQqw0cEk*gbQWGhuxueLMAaM\
XvO9kkbTXcVXltqg*Glu5nwcoz2UXvWWWViQoTUL8MvcuDcVTKpKvgDvudtq*1BweLm!6Kt1u0swWpmg\
l*NwAAAP****8/M%C3%A1scara%20Baul%C3%A9%20A1.JPG?dc=4675512967186320428
>Are you sure it is baulé? It´s very similar to gouro masks. What is the
>differences between them??
>
>·
>6)http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TwAwAyMXWZgDCYo2GDS3vUOp74oOEUBIKw872ovPaOsTbP\
EViyf3*5MUfnURwY9ZY8FjQ*2xHEJ0H1ahSLw*NCjgnwaFq3YZsO9wA7goyMF858lBBcem6Q/Sin%20I\
dentificar%201.JPG?dc=4675512967281668702
>It seems to be baulé, but I am not sure.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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>
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>
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