OK, it does not sucks, it is just totally unacceptable, as is his language about
his opponents, and then I suggest that we spare this forum for more. Another
example why we should not discuss biblical matters here -- or topics relating to
historicity of biblical events.

Niels Peter Lemche

PS: Here we once had a journalist who was nominated as Danish champion in stupid
questions. He went to court and won his case. After that he was always referred
to as the former champion.



-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af aren
Sendt: 8. november 2009 13:54
Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: SV: [ANE-2] collapsed conquest theories-ps

NPL,
Still, there is an accepted language of discourse that should, in my humble
opinion, be adhered to. It is what, in Yiddish, we call Menschlichkeit!

Aren Maeir

Here is a new volume which might interest ANE members,
Victor Hurowitz
BGU

Homeland and Exile
Biblical and Ancient Near Eastern Studies in Honour of Bustenay
Oded
Edited by Gershon Galil, Markham (Mark) Geller and Alan Millard
  December 2009
  ISBN 978 90 04 17889 2
  Hardback
  List price EUR 177.- / US$ 262.-
  Vetus Testamentum, Supplements, 130
This volume is a scholarly tribute to Bustenay Odeds distinguished career
from some of the
many contemporaries, colleagues, and former students who not only admire,
and keep being
inspired by his achievements, but who also count him as a friend.
The title points to the remarkable span of Bustenay Oded s research and
research interests.
Accordingly, the Festschrifts thirty original contributions deal with a
wide range of topics,
focusing on the Assyrian Empire, as well as on the Hebrew Bible and other
cultural contents.
Readership: All those interested in Biblical Studies, the history of the
Ancient Near East, the
history of the Assyrian Empire, the History of Ancient Israel, a well as
Egyptologists
Gershon Galil, Ph. D. (1983), The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, is
Professor of Ancient
History and Biblical Studies at the University of Haifa. He has published
extensively on Biblical
and Ancient Near Eastern History including The Lower Stratum Families in
the Neo-Assyrian Period
(Brill, 2007).
Mark Geller, Ph. D. (1974), Brandeis University, is Jewish Chronicle
Professor in the
Department of Hebrew and Jewish Studies, UCL. He has published on
Sumerian, Akkadian,
and Aramaic magic and medicine, the latest of which is Evil Demons,
Canonical Utukku Lemnutu
Incantations (2007).
Alan Millard, M.A. (1959), University of Oxford, is Emeritus Rankin
Professor of Hebrew and
Ancient Semitic Languages at the University of Liverpool. He has published
extensively on
Biblical and Ancient Near Eastern Languages and History, including The
Eponyms of the Assyrian
Empire 910-612 BC (1994).

Dear Prof. Lemche,

please consider that rudeness is a two-edged sword. For most scholars in our
field, your charge that Gitin and Dohan are incompetent archaeologists and
guilty of forgery magisterially "sucks" as so many instances of calumny and
slander, especially since it has been reiterated in print à la Goebbels with
nothing worthy of the name evidence adduced. Consider how those experts on the
Punic civilisation who doused with vitriol the honesty of Pierre Cintas in his
excavation of the tophet nicknamed 'Chapelle Cintas' are now remembered...

Seing that you are fond of citing Classical scholarship that students of the ANE
justifiably do not read, I could quote at you the dictum of Mommsen's
son-in-law, Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff, comparing the rash textual
conjectures of his predecessors with maggots crawling in the basin of a privy -
the moral of the case, at Wilamowitz's expense, being that times and again he
himself did not any better than those he had exploded. Now, what about that
snippet of Ingram Bywater : "negative criticism has its limits by transgressing
which it degenerates into a senseless and unprofitable exercise in logic" ?

Yours truly,
J.-F. Nardelli
Université de Provence

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Dr. Nardelli,

I approved the mail, although I cannot remember that I have accused Gitin and
Dohan (do you mean Dothan, and them Moshe or Trude) for being incompetent
archaeologists. Just have to know where and when?

If by Gitin, you are referring to the Ekron inscription and the discussion in
BAR 1996, I can only say that I meat Diana Edelman later that day in New Orleans
(SBL annual), and was lectured by her. I have never repeated that statement
which had its own context. If the second reference points at the Tel Dan
inscription, I rest my case on my contribution In Thompson and Jayyusi,
Jerusalem in Ancient History and Tradition (T&T Clark, 2003), and Russell
Gmirkin's material published in SJOT a few years later. I ended summing up that
"I have to admit that the arguments in favour of seeing the Tel Dan fragments as
fake need to be much more forceful--certainly stronger than I have been able to
show in this survey--if they are to prove beyond doubt that the inscription is
the work of a forger. Although arguments can be found (e.g. Garbini's study),
they are hardly enough to win over the person--scholar or layperson--who does
not want to be convinced." (p. 66)

So, up to you to clarify!

Niels Peter Lemche



-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
Sendt: 8. november 2009 14:14
Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] collapsed conquest theories-ps

Dear Prof. Lemche,

please consider that rudeness is a two-edged sword. For most scholars in our
field, your charge that Gitin and Dohan are incompetent archaeologists and
guilty of forgery magisterially "sucks" as so many instances of calumny and
slander, especially since it has been reiterated in print à la Goebbels with
nothing worthy of the name evidence adduced. Consider how those experts on the
Punic civilisation who doused with vitriol the honesty of Pierre Cintas in his
excavation of the tophet nicknamed 'Chapelle Cintas' are now remembered...

Seing that you are fond of citing Classical scholarship that students of the ANE
justifiably do not read, I could quote at you the dictum of Mommsen's
son-in-law, Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff, comparing the rash textual
conjectures of his predecessors with maggots crawling in the basin of a privy -
the moral of the case, at Wilamowitz's expense, being that times and again he
himself did not any better than those he had exploded. Now, what about that
snippet of Ingram Bywater : "negative criticism has its limits by transgressing
which it degenerates into a senseless and unprofitable exercise in logic" ?

Yours truly,
J.-F. Nardelli
Université de Provence

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

The Gmirkin thing is: Russell Gmirkin, "Tool Slippage and the Tel Dan
Inscription," SJOT 16 (2002), pp. 293-302.

Niels Peter Lemche

But please, no more discussions about this inscription. I will stand
with what I wrote in The Israelites in History and Tradition from 1998,
and The Old Testament Between Theology and History from 2008.

I have in mind BAR 23:24 (1997), p. 37, and Stager in Mair (ed.), "I Will Speak
the Riddles of Ancient Times", p. 380 note 15, on top of oral assertions by two
senior, Biblical scholars in Paris.

My point was simply that nothing is gained by this proliferation of coarseness,
which does not befit any scholar worth his reputation. Students are already
petty enough, to say nothing about rednecks and church-goers...

Jean-Fabrice Nardelli

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jean-Fabrice Nardelli wrote:

> My point was simply that nothing is gained by this proliferation of
> coarseness, which does not befit any scholar worth his reputation.
> Students are already petty enough, to say nothing about rednecks and
> church-goers...
>
> Jean-Fabrice Nardelli


Nothing quite like your last sentence to prove just how seriously you
take your own counsel.


++++++

Jim West
http://jwest.wordpress.com

Eure gehorsamen Diener des göttlichen Worts
und Lehrer der Heiligen Schrift.

ANE members may be interested as well in this:
Victor HUrowitz
BGU

Where Heaven and Earth Meet
Jerusalem's Sacred Esplanade

Edited by Oleg Grabar and Benjamin Z. Kedar



    One of the most extraordinary spaces on earth, Jerusalem's Esplanade
has been regarded as sacred for about three millennia. For Judaism, it is
the holiest space, where the Solomonic and Herodian Temples once stood and
where, in the messianic age, the Temple is to be rebuilt at God's
behest. For Christendom, it is the site of the Herodian Temple, which
Jesus repeatedly visited, foretelling its destruction and announcing the
advent of a new, spiritual worship of God. For Islam, it is the holy space
to which the Prophet Muhammad traveled on his mystical Night-Journey and
Ascension, and which holds the Dome of the Rock and the Aqsa Mosque.

Where Heaven and Earth Meet is an unprecedented endeavor. For the first
time, an Israeli, a Palestinian, and a Dominican institute of higher
learning, all located in Jerusalem, have jointly sponsored a volume
dealing with Jerusalem's sacred Esplanadenot only with its monuments, but
also with the conflicting emotions they have aroused over the ages and
with the passions they ignite today. The book contains eleven articles
written by leading experts on the various periods, which add up to an
authoritative, up-to-date account of the site's history; as well as five
thematic essays, ranging from the site considered as a work of art to its
roles in Jewish, Christian, and Muslim thought; a photographic
dossier; and three personal views by the presidents of the Hebrew
University of Jerusalem and Al-Quds University, as well as by Carlo Maria
Cardinal Martini.

Oleg Grabar is Professor Emeritus at the Institute for Advanced Study in
Princeton, New Jersey. Grabar's books include Epic Images and Contemporary
History: The Illustrations of the Great Mongol Shahnama; The Mediation of
Ornament; The Shape of the Holy: Early Islamic Jerusalem; Late
Antiquity: A Guide to the Post-Classical World; The Art and Architecture
of Islam 6501250; Mostly Miniatures; and eighty-three articles gathered in
four volumes under the title Constructing the Study of Islamic Art.

Benjamin Z. Kedar is Professor Emeritus at the Hebrew University of
Jerusalem.

Jamal and Rania Daniel Series in Contemporary History, Politics, Culture,
and Religion of the Levant
Copublished with Yad Ben-Zvi Press


  http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/grawhe.html

Thought so, and I explained the circumstances. Besides I did not accuse Gitin of
being an incompetent archaeologist. And have no share whatsoever in Dohan.

I hope that you are otherwise a bit more concerned about your references,
because in this case you were misrepresenting your opponent.

My problem with handling Faust in a nice way has to do with this salvo which
concludes his Israel's Ethnogenesis (Equinox, 2007), p. 236:

"...this is not, of course, because the minimalists (most of them at least) have
something against the Israelites. What they begrudge is modern Israel. Their
political prejudice leads them to distort both history and method."

Biblical studies is often a nasty place to be in. Classical studies a much more
peaceful enterprise, and the number of bible people who has left the field to
move to Assyriology is conspicuous: just to get away from the heat.

I hope that this will be the last I need to say on this occasion.

Niels Peter Lemche




-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
Sendt: 8. november 2009 14:43
Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] collapsed conquest theories-ps

I have in mind BAR 23:24 (1997), p. 37, and Stager in Mair (ed.), "I Will Speak
the Riddles of Ancient Times", p. 380 note 15, on top of oral assertions by two
senior, Biblical scholars in Paris.

My point was simply that nothing is gained by this proliferation of coarseness,
which does not befit any scholar worth his reputation. Students are already
petty enough, to say nothing about rednecks and church-goers...

Jean-Fabrice Nardelli

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Jeffrey B. Gibson <jgibson000@...> wrote:
 
"But if you read her paper, you will see that it is full of equivocation
on this point. Israelites, "Hebrews", and Jews are all regarded as
if they were the same thing"
 
Is there any consensus on the "correct" definition or usage of these three
terms?
 
Graham Hagens




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No there is no consensus and for her bibliography, it certainly makes sense to
be inclusive.
Thomas

Thomas L. Thompson
Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

________________________________

Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com på vegne af Graham Hagens
Sendt: sø 08-11-2009 18:59
Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Emne: [ANE-2] Re: Request for Assistance






--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Jeffrey B. Gibson <jgibson000@...
<mailto:jgibson000%40comcast.net> > wrote:

"But if you read her paper, you will see that it is full of equivocation
on this point. Israelites, "Hebrews", and Jews are all regarded as
if they were the same thing"

Is there any consensus on the "correct" definition or usage of these three
terms?

Graham Hagens

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thomas L. Thompson wrote:
> No there is no consensus and for her bibliography, it certainly makes sense to
be inclusive.
>
But the problem is that Jody assumes that there *is* a consensus and
that terms like Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews not only have agreed upon
meanings even among those who use any one of them, but  are being used
by those whose work he cites as wholly interchangeable terms .

Jeffrey

--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Jean-Fabrice,
As I patiently explained to Niels Peter: For many Americans, rudeness is of
itself--regardless of cause--reprehensible. Even worse, rudeness and accuracy
for these same Americans is unforgivable! Faust has very politely and without
grounds accused Lemche and like-minded scholars of being anti-Semitic. Lemche
very rudely dismissed Faust's work as a form of pornography. Do you really wish
to object to Niels Peter's outburst for the sake of some thin ideal of scholarly
politeness? I will not hesitate to say that I find your letter shameful. Do you
really wish to defend the kind of dishonest scholarship such as Faust's which we
have accepted these past many decades is acceptable merely on the grounds of its
politeness?
Thomas

P.S. I have been a colleague of Lemche's for 16 years and, at least speak from
experience and knowledge. What is your reason for preferring Faust's slander?

Thomas L. Thompson
Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think you are mistaken, but of course only he can clarify.
Thomas

Thomas L Thompson
Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

________________________________

Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com på vegne af Jeffrey B. Gibson
Sendt: sø 08-11-2009 20:00
Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: Request for Assistance




Thomas L. Thompson wrote:
> No there is no consensus and for her bibliography, it certainly makes sense to
be inclusive.
>
But the problem is that Jody assumes that there *is* a consensus and
that terms like Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews not only have agreed upon
meanings even among those who use any one of them, but are being used
by those whose work he cites as wholly interchangeable terms .

Jeffrey

--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000@... <mailto:jgibson000%40comcast.net>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thomas L. Thompson wrote:
> I think you are mistaken, but of course only he can clarify.
>
Have you looked at Jody's  paper?

Jeffrey

--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000@...

No, actually I haven't had time. You must realize that I am retired now and do
not have so much time to waste on students and lectures anymore. But I will--as
it may be interesting and very helpful, particularly if it gives some context
for the work of such scholars as Kamal Salibi and others-
Thomas

Thomas L. Thompson
professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

________________________________

Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com på vegne af Jeffrey B. Gibson
Sendt: sø 08-11-2009 20:10
Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: Request for Assistance




Thomas L. Thompson wrote:
> I think you are mistaken, but of course only he can clarify.
>
Have you looked at Jody's paper?

Jeffrey

--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000@... <mailto:jgibson000%40comcast.net>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Jean-Fabrice Nardelli" wrote

"My point was simply that nothing is gained by this proliferation of coarseness,
which does not befit any scholar worth his reputation. Students are already
petty enough, to say nothing about rednecks and church-goers"

I surely hope you were trying for a sarcastic laugh with that last statement. I,
being a catholic from Missouri, fall into both categories and take objection to
your disrespect.

Jordan Wilson
intentionme@...

Dear Prof. Thomson,

I am all for debate, but when friendly disagreement becomes a war of words,
something which has plagued Classical studies for long (in Greek we have had a
long and very distinguished tradition of tearing fellow scholars apart ; just
have a look at the pamphlets traded by Rhode and Wilamowitz around Nietzsche's
Geburt der Tragödie, one of them being entitle Afterphilogie, with an anal
wordplay), things get out of hand and the best interest of scholarship are no
longer served. Issues of tact and cortesy in a printed text are no less
important for a Frenchmen than they are to an American.

Yours,
Jean-Fabrice Nardelli

Since when "rednecks" and "churchgoers" are more than marginally derogative
phrases for, respectively, "right-wingers" (in a social and political sense) and
"devout people", both groups being seen of course through the lens of someone
who prides himself on being a rather more progressive person ? I fail to see how
my use of these may give the lie to my strictures against the use of unbecoming,
ad hominem language in scholarly topics, but please, Dr West, enlighten me on
that matter.

Jean-Fabrice Nardelli


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jim West
   To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:57 PM
   Subject: Re: SV: [ANE-2] collapsed conquest theories-ps





   Jean-Fabrice Nardelli wrote:

   > My point was simply that nothing is gained by this proliferation of
   > coarseness, which does not befit any scholar worth his reputation.
   > Students are already petty enough, to say nothing about rednecks and
   > church-goers...
   >
   > Jean-Fabrice Nardelli

   Nothing quite like your last sentence to prove just how seriously you
   take your own counsel.

   ++++++

   Jim West
   http://jwest.wordpress.com

   Eure gehorsamen Diener des göttlichen Worts
   und Lehrer der Heiligen Schrift.





   __________ NOD32 4580 (20091106) Information __________

   This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
   http://www.eset.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am very sorry to contradict Prof. Lemche once more, but Classical studies are
not much more peaceful than the Biblical ones ; it is just that internal
struggles seldom leak in the press and raise concern outside of the ancient
universities. In my original field of expertise, Homeric studies, a great battle
is being warred around the langague of the Iliad and the Odyssey, with
far-reaching consequences on the dating of Homer, its role in the shaping of
Greek poetry, the dialectal geography of archaic Greece, the mechanics of the
verse, and what oral poetry was before literacy took off in Greece. Some
specialists would like us to recognize how the digamma (wau), far from being
nearly extinguished by the eighth century BC in those vernacular dialects in
which epic poetry did spread, was actually always spelt and either written by
other vowels or taken into account even when it does not play a part in prosody.
This means that its rate of decay in the corpus of early epic cannot be deployed
as a mean of putting Homer, Hesiod and the Homeric Hymns in their respective
place within a general chronology. No less daringly, a few other classicists
would have us believe that our way of scanning the dactylic hexameter is wholly
misconceived, bevause we put too much stress on the caesura and the patterning
of short and long syllables in the verse, and that it distorts our perception of
Greek epic as oral/aural litterature. Some of them even put forward a novel
definition of the metrical syllable as a way of eliminating such a complicated
and ill-understood device as synizesis. If both groups of dissidents ever
succeed, we will have to rewrite all handbooks of dialectology, phonetics and
morphology, prosody and metre available, and look at the early Greek poets from
a radically new viewpoint ; the truth of the matter, however, is that those
scholars do not affort enough material to warrant such drastic measures and may
be proved to bend the facts in the way that best suits their purpose. However,
graduate scholars are already found who have heard of the proponents of such
theories (for they are alluring ; just imagine Greek verse free of of much of
its difficulties !), so the danger may well be greater than expected.
I shall also point out the internal guerilla between the conservative critics,
who will not hear of any change made to the text of the (or : some) manuscripts
of any author provided that this very text can be assigned to a meaning, even if
they have to twist the idiom and do violence to style, and those who consider
that textual conservatism is a politer word for Quatsch, being all too often a
mask for ignorance. For a crisp précis of the conceptions to which the latter
school sticks, see http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-09-44.html.

Jean-Fabrice Nardelli



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

According to one theory Hazael laid waste to northern Israel.

According to the Assyrian archives Shalmanesser III defeated an alliance
including Hadadezer and Ahab.  Ahab was listed in the Bible,  In the
Bible Hadadezer was not listed as a contemporary of Ahab, but as a contemporary
of David who was reported to have controlled all the way to the banks of the
Euphrates.  The battle of Qarqar on the Orontes River occured during the time of
Shalmaneser III.

On the Black Obelisk in the British Museum.  Jehu King of Israel was found to be
paying tribute to Shalmanesser III (c. 841).  The "House of David" inscription
suggested to some that Jehu would have been in the sphere of Hazael and
not under the Assyrian yoke.  The Bbile did not even describe the Assyrian
influence at this time.  The Assyrian archives do not describe any Ben Hadad,
but a Hadadezer.  The Hebrew archives do not mention any Assyrians this
early.   

It might be premature to assume that the Aramaens had the upper hand while Jehu
was paying tribute to Assyria and after the orchards and towns of the Aramaens
had been laid waste by the Assyrians.    

http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/JHS/Articles/article_34.htm

David Q. Hall

Jean-Fabrice Nardelli wrote:
>
>
> Since when "rednecks" and "churchgoers" are more than marginally
> derogative phrases for, respectively, "right-wingers" (in a social and
> political sense) and "devout people", both groups being seen of course
> through the lens of someone who prides himself on being a rather more
> progressive person ? I fail to see how my use of these may give the lie
> to my strictures against the use of unbecoming, ad hominem language in
> scholarly topics, but please, Dr West, enlighten me on that matter.


no.


++++++

Jim West
http://jwest.wordpress.com

Eure gehorsamen Diener des göttlichen Worts
und Lehrer der Heiligen Schrift.

This thread is closed.

Marc Cooper
for the Moderators

Dear Jean Fabrice
"Red-necks" is ever a title of shame--and indeed very rude. A language nuance.

If you are for debate, you might answer my question! The "debate" has not been
friendly since 1974; nor has it been a mere war of words.The war in Palestine
and Israel is both current and real.

I visited France as a very young student--your description of the cloying
politeness of the French escapes all memory.

Are we to take it then that you wish to say no more than that you would prefer
that this debate were nice? If so, we can ignore
you........................................politely, of course.
Thomas

Thomas L. Thompson
Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

________________________________

Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com på vegne af Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
Sendt: sø 08-11-2009 20:27
Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] collapsed conquest theories-ps




Dear Prof. Thomson,

I am all for debate, but when friendly disagreement becomes a war of words,
something which has plagued Classical studies for long (in Greek we have had a
long and very distinguished tradition of tearing fellow scholars apart ; just
have a look at the pamphlets traded by Rhode and Wilamowitz around Nietzsche's
Geburt der Tragödie, one of them being entitle Afterphilogie, with an anal
wordplay), things get out of hand and the best interest of scholarship are no
longer served. Issues of tact and cortesy in a printed text are no less
important for a Frenchmen than they are to an American.

Yours,
Jean-Fabrice Nardelli






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In regards to my paper, Ancient Hebrews and Arabia, I suspect that I
had more difficulty in finally choosing the term "Hebrews" as part of
the title
than some of my sources had in describing the peoples they were
studying.
I assumed that no matter which term I used, someone would take exception
to it on the basis of semantics.  To me, it was simply a frame of
reference.  Scholars could determine
the relevancy of those designations.  Whether they used the term
Israelites,
Hebrews or Jews, they seemed to have been people having some
relationship to the tribes of semites that eventually evolved into the
Jews of Israel.

Jody A. Gorran

Call for Papers
Center for Ancient Studies Graduate Student Conference
Submission deadline: Jan 9, 2010

The Sincerest Form of Flattery: Emulation and Imitation in the Ancient World

The Center for Ancient Studies at the University of Pennsylvania is pleased to
accept submissions for its second annual graduate student conference, scheduled
for March 12-13, 2010.

When groups in the ancient world interacted, there was an inevitable amount of
borrowing from one another. What was borrowed and what was not? Who were the
imitators and what was their objective? What did it mean, for example, when the
architectural details, iconographic elements, myths, literary styles,
traditions, or aspects of material culture of one group were copied by another?
Or, for that matter, by members of the same group? The study of emulation and
imitation in antiquity can be approached from many angles, through such topics
as the transmission of knowledge through repetition, the borrowing of literary
forms from other cultures or individuals, the formation of political identity,
the mass production in of luxury goods in cheaper materials, or the diffusion of
art styles. In all cases, it can be argued that emulation and imitation were
both forces for cultural continuity as well as change.

The aim of this symposium is to bring graduate students and faculty from various
disciplines together in order to highlight the different manner these
disciplines may approach common themes drawn from the ancient world. As a means
of encouraging wide-ranging dialogue, submissions are welcome from graduate
students working in such fields as: Anthropology, Art History, Classics,
Linguistics, Archaeology, the Ancient Near East, Ancient History, Pre-Columbian
studies, East Asian Studies, and Middle Eastern Studies.

  Potential topics for papers include but are not limited to:

• Emulation of prestige items within and between groups
• Inspiration and borrowing in literature, eg., allusion and intertext
• Diffusion of art styles and technology through imitation
• Transmission of traditional knowledge and learning
• Acquisition and loss of cultural identity through imitation
• Receptivity of the audience
• Meaning behind such terms as “Romanizing,” “Orientalizing,”
“Egyptianizing,” “Perserie,” “Mexicaninzing,” etc.
• Theoretical and philosophical perspectives on imitation and emulation in
antiquity
• The consciousness/deliberateness of imitation or emulation

Keynote Speaker: Robert Ritner, Professor of Egyptology, University of Chicago
Gala event with keynote speaker on Friday, March 12. One-day symposium on
Saturday, March 13. Both events will be held at the University of Pennsylvania
Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology.

Submissions
Please send a 300 word abstract (double-spaced) along with contact information
(including name, email, institution affiliation) to Tanya McCullough at
ancient@... no later than January 9, 2010. Any questions can also be
sent to this address. Authors will be notified of the status of their
submissions by Jan 23, 2010. Talks should be limited to 20 minutes.



--
M. G. Nelson-Hurst
Ph.D. Candidate in Egyptology
Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations
University of Pennsylvania

Can someone here please give me a list of say 10 of the most prominent
and widely recognized Egyptologists working in this field today?

With thanks in advance,

Jeffrey

-- Can someone here ples
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am not sure what you are looking for here.  You would be able to make a list
of people cited as experts on the Discovery Channel or History Channel very
easily.  Those certainly would be widely recognized by people outside the field.
You could do a keyword search for Egypt and Archaeologist at the NY Times
website and come up with articles.  Are you looking for well-respected
Egyptologists?  Those who are at the cutting edge of the field?  Those who have
jobs at the most prominent universities?  Those who keynote the big conferences?
Who edit the major journals or encyclopedias?  Who have books that sell well on
Amazon.com?  This is such a nebulous question I can't really figure out what you
are looking for.

Sara E. Orel, PhD
Professor of Art History
Truman State University
Kirksville, MO 63501
orel@...

________________________________

From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Jeffrey B. Gibson
Sent: Sun 11/8/2009 8:01 PM
To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ANE-2] most prominent modern Egyptologist




Can someone here please give me a list of say 10 of the most prominent
and widely recognized Egyptologists working in this field today?

With thanks in advance,

Jeffrey

-- Can someone here ples
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000@... <mailto:jgibson000@...>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Orel, Sara wrote:
> I am not sure what you are looking for here.  You would be able to make a list
of people cited as experts on the Discovery Channel or History Channel very
easily.  Those certainly would be widely recognized by people outside the field.
I mean widely recognized by other professional Egyptologists.

Jeffrey

--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000@...

Dear Mr Gibson,

perhaps the most celebrated Egyptologist today, and most highly regarded by his
peers for the excellence both of his scholarly work and of his books of haute
vulgarisation, would be the German Jan Assmann ; senior figures with highly
distinguished work to show are the French Jean Leclant and Nicolas Grimal, the
American J. P. Allen and W. K. Simpson, the British John Baines and R. M.
Parkinson, the Italian (now Swiss) Antonio Loprieno, the Dutch Herman te Velde
and J. F. Borghouts. In this assorted lot you find linguists (Allen, Loprieno,
Borghouts), historians of religion (te Velde), historians of culture and
anthropology (Assmann, Baines, Leclant, Parkinson), historians tout court
(Grimal) ; it goes without saying that every one of them is a philologist of the
higher calibre. I have excluded on purpose one other name of great fame but
dubious standing in the opinion of most Egyptologists, for his numerous
writings, though competent and learned, have been found to be marred by many
philological shortcomings : the American Hans Goedicke, whom students of the ANE
probably remember best for his commentary on Wenamun.

Hoping it helps,

yours truly
J.-F. Nardelli
Université de Provence.

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