R-L21+ L513+, L193+ and P66+ 11-13 are deep ancestral varieties of people scattered across the British Isles, Scandinavia, Benelux and France. Many of the subgroups have Most Recent Common Ancestors that go back to 800-1200 AD.

Medieval Normans, Flemish-Norman allies, Hiberno-Vikings, ancient Gauls, Gaels or Brythonic Celts? or all of the above? Join the message board and share your ideas. Click on the "Messages" on the left to view the board. Let us know your Most Distant Ancestor information and any surname origin/folklore you have available.

Check out the "Links" menu item on the left. Some family history links are there for the larger families in the 11-13 group. Also check the "Files" menu item on the left. A spreadsheet of confirmed and suspected 11-13 people, even if they haven't joined the FTDNA project, is there.

There are over 20 sub-groups. Most are associated with SNP's. L513 and P314.2 appear to split 11-13. L193 and P66 are descended from L513.

The largest families include the Banks, Barrett of Mayo, Kingston, McKenzie, McClain/MacLean, St.Clair/Sinclair, Elliott, Kingston, Kelly of Kildare, Little/Lytle, Burns/Byrnes of Monaghan, Maguire/McGuire of Fermangagh, O'Shea, Ross/Rose of Kilvarock and Massey/Massie, Walsh/Welch/Welsh and Vance/Vans of Barnbarrch, Vance of N.Ireland.

A key marker is DYS406s1. If greater or equal to 11, you should investigate. Values of 13 or greater at DYS617 or at DYS388 are also key. Ysearch ID ZN8M3 is a 67 marker haplotype that can be used to look for matches to the 11-13 people.

If you are an FTDNA customer you can join the project at:
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join-request.aspx?group=R-L21_11-13_Combo

This forum is intended for those qualified to be in the project and interested in pursuing project goals. Please do not use this group for non-11-13 DNA topics, to advance a cultural agenda or to denigrate people. Such activities are banned.

Other forums are available for general R-L21 or DNA newbies.